2 BEFORE THE MISSOURI GAMING COMMISSION
STATE OF MISSOURI
Wednesday, January 24, 2001
7 3417 Knipp Drive
Jefferson City, Missouri
L. G. Ullery, Chairman
13 Robert Smith, Vice Chairman
Lynne R. Nikolaisen, Secretary
14 Dr. Muriel W. Battle
22 Patricia A. Stewart, CSR, CCR, RPR, RMR
ASSOCIATED COURT REPORTERS
23 714 West High Street
P. O. Box 1308
24 Jefferson City, Missouri 65101
I N D E X
Call to Order
Consideration of Approval of Minutes: 4
October 10, 2000
5 October 25, 2000
November 29, 2000
7 Consideration of Hearing Officer
Resolution No. 01-001 6
9 Thomas J. Carullo
Consideration of Licensure of
11 Certain Level I/Key Applicants:
12 Resolution No. 01-002 29
Consideration of Licensure of
14 Certain Suppliers:
15 Resolution No. 01-003 34
Osborne Coinage Company
Resolution No. 01-004 37
17 United States Playing Card Company
Consideration of Relicensure of a
19 Certain Supplier: 32
20 Resolution No. 01-005
Acres Gaming Incorporated
Resolution No. 01-006
22 The Bud Jones Company
23 Resolution No. 01-007
Mikohn Gaming Corporation
Resolution No. 01-009
25 George C. Matteson Company, Inc.
2 I N D E X (CONT'D)
3 Consideration of Relicensure of a
Certain Supplier (Cont'd):
Resolution of No. 01-009
5 Sigma Game, Inc.
6 Resolution No. 01-010
Atronic Casino Technology, L.L.C.
8 Consideration of Settlement Agreements:
9 Resolution No. 01-001-B 42
Sikeston Eagle Lodge #3319
11 Consideration of Proposed Rulemaking:
12 11 CSR 45-17.015 - Access to Excursion 44
Gambling Boat for Purposes of
14 11 CSR 45-31.005 - Procedures for 49
Disciplinary Actions and Hearings
Update on Status of Isle of Capri - 51
16 Boonville/Kansas City
17 Update on Status of Mark Twain Casino - 61
Problem Gambling Education Presentation 77
19 Lia Nower, Ph.D.
20 Presentation by Ken Peck 111
21 Market Report 125
22 Closed Session
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: We've come to order just a
3 few minutes ago. We need to get the meeting started.
4 We'll have another commissioner here shortly, but in the
5 meantime, we'll continue on.
6 Will you call the roll for us, Angie, please.
7 MS. FRANKS: Chairman Ullery?
8 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Present.
9 MS. FRANKS: Commissioner Smith?
10 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Present.
11 MS. FRANKS: Commissioner Nikolaisen?
12 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: Present.
13 MS. FRANKS: Commissioner Battle?
14 (No response.)
15 MS. FRANKS: Commissioner Adorjan?
16 (No response.)
17 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Make note when Commissioner
18 Battle arrives, that she's present at the time.
19 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Mr. Adorjan is hooked in
20 from France?
21 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Mr. Adorjan is out of the
22 country. So, no, we're not hooking him in.
23 MR. MULLALLY: Mr. Chairman, Commissioners, the
24 first item on the agenda under Tabs A, B and C are minutes
25 from the October 10th, 25th and November 29th meeting.
1 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Those are the ones that we
2 previously made some corrections to them, and the
3 corrections were made.
4 MR. MULLALLY: Pardon?
5 COMMISSIONER SMITH: There were -- some
6 corrections, I think, were made in one of these minutes,
7 and they came back, I guess, for resubmission.
8 MR. MULLALLY: That's correct.
9 COMMISSIONER SMITH: They look fine to me.
10 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: I move for approval.
11 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: We have a motion for
13 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Is that for all of the
15 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: That's for A, B and
16 C, all.
17 COMMISSIONER SMITH: I second the motion.
18 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: We have a motion to second.
19 Angie, will you call the roll, please.
20 MS. FRANKS: Chairman Ullery?
21 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Favor.
22 MS. FRANKS: Commissioner Smith?
23 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Favor.
24 MS. FRANKS: Commissioner Nikolaisen?
25 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: In favor.
1 MS. FRANKS: By your vote you've adopted the
2 minutes of the October 10, 2000, October 25th, 2000 and
3 November 29th, 2000 meeting.
4 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Thank you.
5 MR. MULLALLY: Mr. Chairman, under Tab D we
6 have a consideration of a hearing officer recommendation
7 in the case of Thomas J. Carullo versus Missouri Gaming
9 And Hearing Officer Yost will make the
11 MR. YOST: Good morning.
12 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Good morning.
13 MR. YOST: I have DC-00-2053.
14 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Wait a minute.
15 MR. YOST: Resolution.
16 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Is that the one involving
17 Mr. Carullo?
18 MR. YOST: Yes, it is. 01-001.
19 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Okay. Continue.
20 MR. YOST: The petitioner is Thomas J. Carullo,
21 and the respondent is the Missouri Gaming Commission.
22 Specifically, on June 5th, 2000 the Missouri
23 Gaming Commission notified Thomas J. Carullo that his
24 Level II occupational license would be disciplined by a
25 56-hour suspension for violation of the loss limit
1 provisions of the Missouri statutes and regulation.
2 On June 19th of 2000 he requested a hearing
3 through counsel, and on November 22nd of 2000 the hearing
4 was conducted, presided over by myself.
5 The petitioner appeared in person, represented
6 by counsel, Mr. Robert Shirkey, and the Commission was
7 represented by Michael Bradley of the Attorney General's
9 The facts: This was a typical loss limit case.
10 Specifically on March 24th, 2000 an undercover sting
11 operation was conducted by officers from the Missouri
12 Gaming Commission, in which Mr. Carullo allowed the
13 trooper to buy in for more than the $500 loss limit by
14 providing -- asking for $50 in chips, when, I believe, he
15 had $40 remaining on his loss limit card, and Mr. Carullo
16 did allow him to do that.
17 Factually, this is a case where he is certainly
18 subject to discipline under the laws and regulations of
19 the Commission.
20 I am recommending that he not be disciplined
21 for the reason that the Missouri Gaming Company, who was
22 his employer, terminated him upon finding out of the
23 proposed discipline in this case, and he has not had a job
24 in gaming since the termination, which is approaching
25 seven months at this point in time.
1 So it's my opinion that adding a 56-hour
2 suspension on his license would -- if he were -- if and
3 when he decides to reapply for a gaming position would be
4 excessive since he's already, essentially, served seven
5 months' worth of involuntary unemployment, so to speak, in
6 the field of gaming.
7 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: Can I just ask a
8 quick question there?
9 MR. YOST: Certainly.
10 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: By terminating him,
11 does that absolve them of penalties?
12 MR. YOST: Well, I'm glad you asked that,
13 because I was going to address that.
14 And if you read my proposed discipline, you'll
15 notice that I was concerned with that issue.
16 I've been doing these for about a year, and
17 you've heard me make presentations for about a year. And
18 I think you'll find that I try to take a common-sense
19 approach to these types of situations.
20 And some things that came up in this particular
21 hearing concerned me as to how this case was handled by
22 the company and how the company perceives it will be
23 handled by the Missouri Gaming Commission. And those were
24 concerns I wanted to address to the Commission about.
25 Before I begin, I want to point out that I
1 understand that the loss limits are somewhat of a
2 controversial issue at this point in time. And I don't
3 want anyone to be confused by my comments that I am
4 commenting on my feelings about the loss limit provision
5 as a whole.
6 If you're asking personally, I believe in the
7 loss limit provision. So don't take anything that I say
8 today as a criticism of the loss limit provisions in
10 I disagree with a company terminating an
11 otherwise qualified and hard-working employee because of a
12 singular violation of this type.
13 And I am more troubled by the fact that the
14 company's reasoning, at least to the employee, for his
15 termination was they felt like this would minimize the
16 effect of any proposed discipline that the Commission
17 might give to the company as a result of their termination
18 of the employee.
19 The one thing I've learned in covering and
20 hearing several loss limit cases over the last year is --
21 is that these employees are set up for failure by the
23 They are -- dealers are given the very, very
24 difficult task of conducting the games in the manner that
25 is prescribed by the company in the way the companies want
2 They are also charged with watching every
3 customer at their table to make sure that the customers
4 are not stealing money, or trying to trick them to
5 successful win the game, or those natures.
6 And then you compound that with the problem of
7 the excessive noise and the commotion that goes on in the
8 casino environment.
9 And then they are also asked to abide by the
10 loss limit provisions. And the equipment that they are
11 given to accomplish this task in my opinion is not
12 appropriate for the job that they're asked to do.
13 You've heard several of these cases, and we've
14 talked about -- these machines do not have an audible beep
15 that tells the dealer that the -- that the customer has
16 gone over the loss limit. They clear out after a matter
17 of time so the dealer can ring in a new transaction.
18 I feel like it's only a matter of time before
19 even the finest dealer on the floor is going to violate
20 the loss limit provisions because of the equipment that
21 they are given and because of the multiple tasks that they
22 are asked to do.
23 So I am troubled. I -- put it this way: It is
24 my hope that it is not the Commission's policy to minimize
25 the regulatory effect that the loss limit violations have
1 on the company, because they set forth a system that does
2 not help the dealer at all in this problem, and then they
3 fire the dealer as a result of a problem that's basically,
4 you know, predisposed to happen.
5 So I just wanted to raise those concerns that I
6 have in this particular case.
7 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Is there any reason that
8 we couldn't penalize the company and not penalize the
10 If they discharged him, what you're saying is,
11 in a practical matter, he's gone.
12 Two questions: one is, if he reapplies, then
13 he has no record. Isn't that something that he should
14 have some -- is that something we should think about?
15 MR. MULLALLY: Normally I wouldn't comment on
16 these things if it was going to affect the case, but this
17 is really outside the parameters of the case.
18 COMMISSIONER SMITH: It's a good time to bring
19 it up.
20 MR. MULLALLY: In fact, you did penalize the
21 company. The admission fined the Missouri Gaming Company
22 $100,000 for the loss limit violations that emanated out
23 of this particular sting. So the -- it really had no
24 impact on the way the company was treated.
25 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: How many -- excuse me.
1 Go ahead, Lynne.
2 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: I was just going to
3 say, along those lines -- I know it's come up before,
4 especially this audible beep thing and everything else
5 going on -- have companies -- not this company, but the
6 other boats who are represented, has there been any
7 discussion with their people maybe of changing this system
8 to not only avoid penalties of that size for the company
9 but to keep people from being terminated?
10 MR. MULLALLY: We -- Clarence Greeno and Steve
11 Johnson -- staff from Steve Johnson's staff has been
12 looking at a number of the technological solutions that
13 might be available. And I think we are headed towards
14 adopting some kind of standards on that.
15 I don't know if you want to address that any
16 further, Steve.
17 MR. JOHNSON: I can't -- I really can't address
18 it beyond that, except that we're looking at the state-of-
19 the-art systems that are reading systems and tracking
20 systems that should eliminate these things from happening.
21 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: But it might be --
22 and I'm just asking for a guess. Is it six months away, a
23 year away, two -- two years away?
24 MR. JOHNSON: It's terribly expensive
25 technology. It is being used now in -- in casinos in
1 Las Vegas. And it's -- I'd hate to put a time parameter
2 on it, but it's actually -- it's being tested, it's being
3 used. It's probably closer than not if we choose to go
4 that way aggressively.
5 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Can somebody tell me what the
6 main problem is with the system we've got now?
7 And I understand where you're coming from. But
8 I'm not sure that -- I don't agree with what you're saying
9 right now as far as discipline is concerned, but I'm
10 subject to changing my mind before this is over with
12 But I don't really understand -- I know the
13 commotion and so on and so forth. But how many of these
14 cases do we have where this is a valid defense, if you
15 will --
16 MR. YOST: I don't want to interrupt you,
17 Mr. Chairman, but I want to make sure that my position is
18 clear. I do feel that the individual dealer should be
19 subject to discipline for these violations.
20 In this particular case, I feel like since the
21 fact that this employee has gone seven months without
22 employment is punishment itself.
23 I placed in my proposed findings -- I don't
24 want my comments to be confused, that I think that this
25 absolves the employee of responsibility, because, clearly,
1 it does not, in my opinion. They are still -- it's still
2 their mental mistake that caused this to happen, and I
3 feel like they have to be disciplined in order that the
4 loss limit has the proper respect and attention in their
5 minds. I do feel that way.
6 My concern simply was, there is a perception on
7 the part of the company that they feel like by terminating
8 the employee, that that -- whether that's founded or
9 unfounded, there is a perception, at least, that they feel
10 like they can avoid discipline by terminating an otherwise
11 fine employee for a system that may be flawed in its
13 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: If the system is flawed, then
14 I think we need to address that. I'm just -- maybe I'm
15 confused like maybe the dealers are. I'm not sure. I
16 don't -- I'm not perceiving what I need to here as far as,
17 it is this dealer's responsibility.
18 MR. YOST: Correct.
19 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: I guess one of my questions
20 is, does anybody know if most of the gaming industry fire
21 these people when they get this type of a charge and so on
22 and so forth?
23 I don't remember any, but then maybe they are.
24 Is that a routine, or can anybody answer that?
25 Or is this unique?
1 MR. MULLALLY: Yeah, I don't know that it is
2 routine. And I can certainly say that it's not anything
3 that's been encouraged by the Gaming Commission staff,
4 and, frankly, not even anything that we pay a lot of
5 attention to.
6 Company discipline is a separate and distinct
7 thing from Commission discipline. And what they choose to
8 do with their employees has really been, to a large
9 extent, left up to them.
10 Now, to the extent that you think we need to
11 start looking at that and see if the casino is acting
12 improperly, I think we're certainly willing to do that.
13 But we really have not -- in no way allowed it to affect
14 the disciplinary process.
15 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Well, let me make it clear.
16 I'm not -- I don't think we should interfere at this point
17 as to what the gaming companies do with their employees,
18 as long as it's not an illegal act. So that's not what
19 I'm implying at all.
20 MR. MULLALLY: To the -- I'm sorry.
21 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Go ahead.
22 MR. MULLALLY: I think to the extent that an
23 employee felt like they were treated unfairly, there are
24 processes other than the Gaming Commission to deal with
1 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Do you have --
2 MR. YOST: Just so -- I certainly will not
3 advocate a position that we would get involved in the
4 personnel policies of the company either.
5 As much as I may disagree with their decision,
6 it's certainly their decision to make.
7 My concern simply was the perception that the
8 company had and why they were dismissing the employee, if
9 you understand the distinction between those two.
10 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Oh, sure, I appreciate that.
11 MR. YOST: As far as the problem -- if you're
12 trying to identify what in my mind the problem is, I just
13 feel like they are given the ominous task -- a dealer on a
14 Saturday night in a packed casino is given these loss
15 limit readers, as far as I -- as best as I'm able to
16 understand, only shows that the person -- the card is
17 not -- is over the limit for a brief period of time, and
18 then it just goes away.
19 And if you're paying attention to other things,
20 such as whether or not somebody is trying to steal chips
21 or something like that, it's very possible and it's --
22 every case I've had it's been people that, you know,
23 otherwise are fine and they do everything great and they
24 do a great job.
25 They just -- on a bad night they allowed -- and
1 the problem I would point out to you is, I don't know how
2 many times this happens where it's not involving a
3 trooper. I only have the cases where it's involved an
4 undercover trooper.
5 So, you know, with the million different things
6 that they're charged with doing, the one -- you know, the
7 one thing that can be easily overlooked by the machinery
8 that is in place is that brief period of time where the
9 credit-card Verifone says that they're over the limit.
10 And time after time they don't catch it.
11 COMMISSIONER SMITH: I have another question,
12 Mr. Chairman, if you're finished.
13 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Go ahead. I'm toying.
14 COMMISSIONER SMITH: I'm just wondering a
15 little bit about the form of the order.
16 I guess we're in a situation where the man is
17 guilty of a violation of the rule but he's not
18 disciplined. And all the final order says is that he's
19 not disciplined.
20 I'm just wondering if it wouldn't be better off
21 to have a finding that he's been found guilty of the
22 violation, but because of the penalties already received,
23 there will be no discipline. So if he comes back up for
24 employment, it would reflect that.
25 MR. YOST: And I could certainly reword the way
1 the final order is written.
2 I do put in my findings of facts in my last
3 paragraph involving the conclusions of law that he is
4 subject -- that he did commit the violation and that he is
5 subject to discipline.
6 COMMISSIONER SMITH: I saw that. I thought
7 in the final order maybe that would make it clear to
8 everybody that you were finding him guilty, but --
9 MR. YOST: That is certainly a change that I
10 can make in this case and in the future.
11 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Do you have a problem with
12 that, Kevin?
13 MR. MULLALLY: I mean, I'd really like to leave
14 it up to the hearing officer, but I think it makes a lot
15 of sense.
16 COMMISSIONER SMITH: I think it would be easier
17 for everybody to understand exactly what happened.
18 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Also, the last line, if
19 you're going to modify it, you know, you indicate here
20 that they terminated so that the company is not to have to
21 pay any administrative penalty.
22 And I'm not sure that's a true statement. Is
24 MR. YOST: I can just tell you my -- that was
25 what was expressed to the employee when he was terminated
1 and that was -- I brought -- that last paragraph -- the
2 last two paragraphs are merely, if you want to call it,
3 dicta, so to speak, from a legal perspective.
4 It's just mainly a concern that I brought up.
5 I'm not making a factual finding that that is what the
6 company did. It's just that my -- that was my concern
7 with the decision that was made. And it's just my concern
8 that that's not the policy of the Commission, which I'm
9 confident now that it is not.
10 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: You said he'd been unemployed
11 about how long? Seven months?
12 MR. YOST: At the time of the November hearing
13 he was not working in gaming.
14 And his testimony was that it was -- possible
15 employers were concerned about this violation or what --
16 I've had cases where people have easily found other jobs
17 in similar situations. So I can't comment on whether
18 that's completely accurate, but at least that is what was
19 testified to.
20 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: That was a big thing that
21 bothered me when I read this, you know, does a pending
22 disciplinary thing prohibit those people from being hired?
23 It's not in our rules, is it? Or is it?
24 MR. YOST: No, I don't believe it's a rule that
25 prohibits it.
1 MR. MULLALLY: It can be considered but it's
2 not --
3 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Well, I understand that.
4 MR. YOST: Personally, I've had people that
5 have had discipline that I would consider pending more
6 serious than this that have been hired on by other
7 companies for similar positions.
8 But every company is different, and I can't
9 speculate as to why a company would -- or would not hire
10 somebody based on this.
11 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Well, there may be lots of
12 reasons, but you're right, we should not speculate on it.
13 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Mr. Chairman, I move that
14 we approve Resolution 01-001.
15 I think we've made clear to you our concerns
16 about it, and I think that the termination was correct
17 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: As it stands?
18 COMMISSIONER SMITH: As it stands.
19 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: Are you talking about
20 adding that amendment to it for the --
21 COMMISSIONER SMITH: I think that's up to the
22 hearing commissioner. I don't think I can tell him how to
23 do his order.
24 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: Okay.
25 MR. YOST: I would be happy to amend the order
1 if the Commissioners would like. That's not a problem for
3 COMMISSIONER SMITH: I think that would better
4 explain what happened.
5 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Are you saying that you want
6 to remove this from the agenda and present it again?
7 MR. YOST: I would -- just to save the
8 Commissioners some time, I would propose that I would
9 amend the final order to say that Thomas Carullo is
10 subject to discipline for the reasons explains above;
11 however, should not be disciplined due to the termination
12 of his employment.
13 Would that be a sufficient amendment?
14 COMMISSIONER SMITH: That's fine with me. I
15 move the resolution with that amendment to it.
16 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: Second.
17 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: We have a motion and we have
18 a second.
19 I need to make a statement before we call for a
21 I'm a bit afraid that we're setting a bad
22 precedent. And I realize I have a motion and a second. I
23 just want that in the record, that I think that we're
24 setting a bad precedent as far as not addressing the loss
1 It's a very controversial thing in the state,
2 and we certainly don't control whether it's here or
3 whether it's not. I realize who is the controlling
4 factor, and that's the Legislature. But it is on the
5 books and there is a violation.
6 With that said in the record, call the roll,
7 Angie, if you will.
8 MR. MULLALLY: Mr. Chairman, if I could just
9 note, that because there are only three of you, by
10 statute, it will require all three -- it has to be a
11 majority of the Commission.
12 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: I understand that.
13 MR. MULLALLY: I just wanted to . . .
14 We may have a fourth.
15 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Well, she won't be aware of
16 the controversy and so on and so forth.
17 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Is there any reason we
18 just can't table this to the next meeting?
19 MR. YOST: That would be --
20 COMMISSIONER SMITH: And you'll redraft the
21 order then. I can't see that there is any harm then.
22 The second isn't mine. I'll withdraw my motion
23 and make another one.
24 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: That's fine. I
1 COMMISSIONER SMITH: I would move that this
2 resolution be tabled to the next meeting to give the
3 administrative officer an opportunity to make the changes
4 he had suggested.
5 MR. YOST: Will Dr. Battle be given a copy of
6 the transcript, or do you want me to restate the
7 discussion we just had?
8 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: We will give her a portion of
9 the transcript before the next meeting.
10 Can you make sure she gets that --
11 MS. FRANKS: Sure.
12 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: -- at least that portion of
15 MR. YOST: Thank you very much. I
16 appreciate --
17 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Thank you.
18 MR. YOST: -- your patience with me on this
19 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: Thank you.
20 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Thank you.
21 MR. MULLALLY: Mr. Chairman, if I could just
22 note, I think Staff is in full agreement with Hearing
23 Officer Yost's concern about the tools that are given the
24 employees in order to enforce the loss limit.
25 It has been something that, frankly, we have
1 been looking at since the fall and this last round of loss
2 limit stings.
3 I think because of the change-over in personnel
4 at the management level of the administrative staff, it's
5 something that hasn't proceeded as quickly as we would
6 like, but it is an area that we're looking at very
8 We had, frankly, hoped that the industry would
9 step up to the plate before we would have to come to them
10 with a rule, and that they would implement these changes
11 and provide their people with the necessary tools in order
12 to enforce the loss limit without the requirement of a
13 rule, because of the varying ways that I'm sure you're
14 aware that they enforce the loss limits.
15 Some have the electronic cards, some have the
16 paper system and things like that.
17 And the reason we had hoped that, because the
18 rulemaking process, as you know, is fairly long and
19 cumbersome, and it would take a long way to implement
21 I think we are getting to the point where a
22 rule may be needed.
23 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: If it's needed, then that's
24 fine. Or is this need based on an isolated incident?
25 MR. MULLALLY: No. This is something we've
1 been looking at for quite some time.
2 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: And that was the
3 reason for my question, because I keep hearing some of the
4 same reasons. So it's, like, are the tools there?
5 MR. MULLALLY: It was something that was
6 important particularly to Ralph Biele, and he started -- I
7 think Clarence has mostly done the bulk of the work on it.
8 But, of course, then Ralph retired, and Steve Johnson has
9 recently taken over. And so that's hindered the process a
10 little bit.
11 But we are -- we fully intend to address this
12 and be aggressive with it.
13 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Are we the only state in
14 the country that has the loss limit?
15 MR. MULLALLY: The only jurisdiction in the
16 world that has the loss limit.
17 COMMISSIONER SMITH: So it may not -- it may be
18 why there hasn't been --
19 MR. MULLALLY: That is one of the problems the
20 industry cites. Some of them are claiming that their
21 software vendors are refusing to do it, because Missouri
22 is the only market for it.
23 I think maybe refusing to do it for the price
24 they're willing to pay, may be a more complete
25 explanation. I can't believe that a software vendor is
1 just flat-out refusing to do it.
2 But I think there are a number of ways that we
3 can address those things, and I have full confidence in
4 Steve Johnson's persuasive ability.
5 So I think it's something that we can probably
6 give you a good update on at the next
8 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Well, I'd like to have one.
9 Does it even appear that it might be cost
11 That's really not a concern of the Commission,
12 I understand that, but still in all --
13 MR. JOHNSON: In the context that it is, if
14 we're going to be forced into the rulemaking process to
15 help with the loss limit issue, then I suppose that it is
16 cost effective.
17 But I echo the director -- acting director's
18 concerns. I wish that we didn't have to go in that
19 direction. However, we've looked at just this last week a
20 state-of-the-art tracking system in Las Vegas. We do have
21 some remedies that we are actively discussing and will be
22 prepared to make a presentation.
23 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Well, I'd like to know how
24 big the problem really is, that we can address.
25 MR. JOHNSON: It's significant, Mr. Chairman,
1 in that the loss limit issue is so easily circumvented.
2 And I don't know that a foolproof system exists to
3 regulate that. I think that's a matter of record.
4 But I think if we are forced into that posture,
5 that we can get pretty darn close to it.
6 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Just document what we need,
8 MR. JOHNSON: All right, sir.
9 MR. MULLALLY: I think Hearing Officer Yost was
10 exactly right in that, yes, some of these employees need
11 to pay more attention to what they're doing and got to
12 place a high priority on the loss limit.
13 But the tools they are given in order to
14 enforce this, given the job that they are expected to do
15 and the environment they're expected to do it, sometimes
16 is asking a little much.
17 MR. YOST: And I would just say that it's my
18 opinion from the cases I've seen that I think at least
19 from the teller end of it, just the simple changes in
20 software would almost essentially eliminate their mistakes
21 from the equation. And that's really what my concern is.
22 I bring it up to the point that I think these
23 are mistakes that could be corrected -- this is a system
24 that could be changed to eliminate the possibility of
25 mistake without tremendous difficulty, and that's where my
1 concern was.
2 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Well, I just want you to
3 understand that you weren't on trial this morning.
4 MR. YOST: Oh, I understand.
5 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: I know it seems like it.
6 MR. YOST: No, not at all.
7 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: I think it was a point that
8 well taken, hopefully by the Commission.
9 After the discussion, I more appreciate that
10 you did write it like you did, because maybe it will lay
11 something to rest.
12 MR. YOST: And that was really my concern. And
13 I didn't take any of the questions from the commissioners
14 as hostile in any way.
15 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Okay.
16 COMMISSIONER SMITH: The more information we
17 can be provided, the better chance we can --
18 MR. YOST: And that was really -- I'll be
19 honest with you, these are issues I've been, I guess,
20 wanting to raise to the Commission for a while, but I
21 didn't feel like it was case appropriate until this
22 particular case came up. And that's why I chose to bring
23 it up at this point in time.
24 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Any time, we'll be glad to
25 address that.
1 MR. YOST: I thought you might like an opinion
2 from the trenches, so to speak.
3 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Fine. Thank you.
4 MR. YOST: Thank you.
5 COMMISSIONER SMITH: We need to vote on my
6 motion to table.
7 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: We need a motion.
8 We have a motion.
9 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: I'll second it.
10 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: And you second.
11 Welcome aboard.
12 Angie, would you call the roll on the tabling
13 of the motion, please.
14 MS. FRANKS: Chairman Ullery?
15 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: In favor.
16 MS. FRANKS: Commissioner Smith?
17 COMMISSIONER SMITH: In favor.
18 MS. FRANKS: Commissioner Nikolaisen?
19 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: Favor.
20 MS. FRANKS: Commissioner Battle?
21 COMMISSIONER BATTLE: Favor.
22 MS. FRANKS: By your vote you have tabled the
23 hearing officer recommendation in Resolution No. 01-001.
24 MR. MULLALLY: Mr. Chairman, under Tab E,
25 you'll find Resolution No. 01-002 regarding the
1 consideration of licensure of certain Level I and key
2 person licensees.
3 Sergeant George Hamilton from the Missouri
4 State Highway Patrol will make the presentation.
5 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: George, before you start,
6 give me just a minute or two.
7 SERGEANT HAMILTON: Yes, sir.
8 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: First of all, we've noted
9 that Dr. Battle is present.
10 The second thing is, that we will get a
11 transcript relatively early, I hope, on our discussion on
12 why we're tabling this, so you know what we're coming from
13 and what went on. We had a terrible quandary.
14 COMMISSIONER BATTLE: See what happens when I'm
15 not here.
16 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: You need to be here on time
17 in order to keep us in order.
18 Okay. Go ahead, George.
19 SERGEANT HAMILTON: Mr. Chairman,
21 The background teams conducted investigations
22 of a key person and Level I's that included but were not
23 limited to criminal, financial and general character
25 The following individuals have been
1 investigated and found to be suitable for licensure by the
2 Commission: Randy S. Reedy, Director of Slot Operations
3 at Ameristar Casino Kansas City, Incorporated; Deborah L.
4 Wiliker, Director of Finance at Harrah's North Kansas
5 City, LLC; David P. Miller, Senior Director of Operations
6 at Isle of Capri-Kansas City, Incorporated; Robert W.
7 Little, Key Person (General Manager) of St. Joe Riverboat
9 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Any questions from the
11 COMMISSIONER SMITH: I think they all look
12 clean to me. I don't see anybody that has any sort of bad
13 record on them.
14 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Do we have motion on
15 Resolution 01-002?
16 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: I move for adoption.
17 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Do we have a second?
18 COMMISSIONER SMITH: I would second it.
19 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: We have a motion and a
22 MS. FRANKS: Chairman Ullery?
23 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: In favor.
24 MS. FRANKS: Commissioner Smith?
25 COMMISSIONER SMITH: In favor.
1 MS. FRANKS: Commissioner Nikolaisen?
2 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: Favor.
3 MS. FRANKS: Commissioner Battle?
4 COMMISSIONER BATTLE: In favor.
5 MS. FRANKS: By your vote you've adopted
6 Resolution No. 01-002.
7 MR. MULLALLY: Mr. Chairman, under Tabs F
8 through M, you have the staff reports and resolutions
9 regarding the consideration of relicensure of certain
11 And Sergeant Hamilton, again, will make the
13 SERGEANT HAMILTON: Mr. Chairman and
14 Commissioners, background investigations to include
15 criminal history checks and tax reviews of the following
16 suppliers and their respective key persons have been
17 conducted in conjunction with their relicensing.
18 As a result of the investigations, the
19 following suppliers have been found suitable for
20 relicensing by the Commission: Acres Gaming,
21 Incorporated; The Bud Jones Company; Mikohn Gaming
22 Corporation; George C. Matteson Company, Incorporated;
23 Sigma Game, Incorporated; Atronic Casino Technology, LLC.
24 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: That's F through M. Is that
1 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: H through M.
2 H through M is relicensure, and I think F and G
3 are new licenses, if I'm reading that correctly.
4 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Okay.
5 Any questions, comments?
6 COMMISSIONER SMITH: I move the adoption of
7 Commission Resolution 01-003 --
8 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: No. Wait. What did
9 we just -- I thought we did H through -- I'm confused.
10 MR. MULLALLY: You're right. F and G are new
12 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: Those are new.
13 We just did H through M.
14 COMMISSIONER SMITH: I think he just called it
15 to our attention. I don't think we voted on it.
16 SERGEANT HAMILTON: We stepped up one notch.
17 MR. MULLALLY: All right. H through --
18 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Okay.
19 MR. MULLALLY: H through m, and we'll come back
20 to F and G, I guess.
21 SERGEANT HAMILTON: Right.
22 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: Do we move for these
23 separately or -- should they be done separately?
24 MR. MULLALLY: You can have a motion to do them
25 all at once, if there is no objection.
1 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: Can I move to do --
2 starting with Resolution No. 01-005 through 01-010
3 simultaneously for approval, please, unless there is an
5 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Do we have an objection?
6 COMMISSIONER SMITH: That's fine with me.
7 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: I have a motion for
8 Resolution 01-005 through 01-010.
9 Do I have a second?
10 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Second.
11 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: I have a motion and a second.
13 MS. FRANKS: Chairman Ullery?
14 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: In favor.
15 MS. FRANKS: Commissioner Smith?
16 COMMISSIONER SMITH: In favor.
17 MS. FRANKS: Commissioner Nikolaisen?
18 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: Favor.
19 MS. FRANKS: Commissioner Battle?
20 COMMISSIONER BATTLE: In favor.
21 MS. FRANKS: By your vote you've adopted
22 Resolution No. 01-005, 01-006, 01-007, 01-008, 01-009 and
24 MR. MULLALLY: Now, back to Tab F, we have a
25 consideration of a new license for supplier Osborne
1 Coinage Company.
2 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: And that is 01-003. Is that
4 MR. MULLALLY: That is correct.
5 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Thank you.
6 SERGEANT HAMILTON: Mr. Chairman and
7 Commissioners, investigators of the Missouri Gaming
8 Commission conducted the background investigation of the
9 Osborne Coinage Company.
10 The investigation included criminal, character
11 and financial inquiries into its background and the
12 following key persons: Thomas E. Stegman, President and
13 Chief Executive Officer; Jeffrey J. Stegman,
14 Vice-President and Secretary; Todd R. Stegman,
15 Vice-President and Treasurer; Thomas E. D'Agnillo, Chief
16 Financial Officer.
17 The financial background investigation of the
18 company included, but was not limited to, the inspection
19 of corporate tax returns, the source and application of
20 funds, including the use of funds for public offerings,
21 the examination of loans to and from stockholders and
22 corporate officers, cash-flow analysis and bad-debt
23 write-offs and a review of all corporate litigation.
24 The financial background investigation of the
25 key persons included, but not limited to, examination of
1 individual tax returns, bank and brokerage statements, all
2 sources of income, including all nontaxable income, and
3 employment agreements.
4 Criminal and character background checks
5 included, but were not limited to, checks with federal,
6 state, county and municipal law enforcement agencies where
7 the individuals have lived, worked and frequented.
8 The Osborne Coinage Company is a manufacturer
9 of commemorative coins, tokens and other metal stampings.
10 Osborne is one of approximately private mints
11 in the United States.
12 The findings of the investigation, including
13 the financial review, disclosed no discrepancies or
14 concerns that would preclude licensing the Osborne Coinage
15 Company as a supplier in the State of Missouri.
16 Based on our findings, the investigative team
17 recommends that Osborne Coinage Company be found suitable
18 for licensure for supplier in the State of Missouri.
19 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Do they supply the tokens?
20 Is that what they do?
21 SERGEANT HAMILTON: Yes, sir.
22 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Do you-all actually go to
23 the plant to observe their security?
24 SERGEANT HAMILTON: Yes, sir, we did.
25 COMMISSIONER SMITH: I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman.
1 I was reading this before and didn't listen to what was
2 going on when I made a notion to approve it. So I'll
3 renew it.
4 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: You'll renew the motion?
5 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Yes.
6 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: We have a motion.
7 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: Second.
8 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: And a second for 01-003.
9 COMMISSIONER SMITH: They seem to be perfectly
10 clean as far as I can see.
11 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Angie, would you call the
13 MS. FRANKS: Chairman Ullery?
14 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: In favor.
15 MS. FRANKS: Commissioner Smith?
16 COMMISSIONER SMITH: In favor.
17 MS. FRANKS: Commissioner Nikolaisen?
18 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: Favor.
19 MS. FRANKS: Commissioner Battle?
20 COMMISSIONER BATTLE: In favor.
21 MS. FRANKS: By your vote you've adopted
22 Resolution No. 01-003.
23 MR. MULLALLY: Under Tab G is consideration of
24 licensure for United States Playing Card Company.
25 SERGEANT HAMILTON: Mr. Chairman and
1 Commissioners, investigators of the Missouri Gaming
2 Commission conducted the background investigation of
3 United States Playing Card Company for a supplier's
5 Pardon me.
6 The investigation included criminal, character
7 and financial inquiries into its background and the
8 following key persons: Charles R. Zunk, President And
9 chief Executive Officer; James T. Perry, Senior
10 Vice-President and General Counsel; David W. Sommerkamp,
11 Vice-President, Chief Financial Officer, Treasurer and
12 Assistant Secretary; Dudley S. Taft, Majority Stockholder.
13 The financial background investigation of the
14 company included, but was not limited to, inspection of
15 corporate tax returns, the source and application of
16 funds, including the use of funds for public offerings,
17 the examination of loans to and from stockholders and
18 corporate officers, cash-flow analysis and bad-debt
19 write-offs, and a review of all corporate litigation.
20 The financial background of the key persons
21 included, but not limited to, examination of individual
22 tax returns, bank and brokerage statements, all sources of
23 income, including all nontaxable income, and employment
25 The criminal and character background checks
1 included, but were not limited to, checks with the
2 federal, state, county, municipal law enforcement agencies
3 where the individuals have lived, worked and frequented.
4 The United States Playing Cards manufactures
5 playing cards of all types, in single or multi-color back
6 designs, marketed under numerous brand names in both the
7 domestic and foreign markets.
8 They also manufacture custom-design playing
9 cards, special cards for game producers and distributors,
10 custom casino playing cards for numerous casinos
11 throughout the world, instruction and rule books and
12 numerous related products.
13 Findings in the investigation, including the
14 financial review, disclosed no discrepancies or concerns
15 that would preclude licensing the United States Playing
16 Card Company as a supplier in the State of Missouri.
17 Based on our findings, the investigative team
18 recommends that the United States Playing Card Company be
19 found suitable for licensure as a supplier in the State of
21 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Comments, discussions?
22 COMMISSIONER SMITH: I just had one question.
23 I notice a holding company acquired this
25 SERGEANT HAMILTON: Yes, sir.
1 COMMISSIONER SMITH: I guess, actually controls
2 it. I'm curious, why are we investigating the subsidiary
3 rather than the holding company?
4 MR. MULLALLY: Because the subsidiary is the
5 actual licensee. That's a common corporate structure.
6 For instance, Harrah's, we license the Harrah's
7 parent as a key person; but the actual licensees are each
8 one of these subsidiary riverboat companies in Kansas City
9 and Maryland Heights.
10 It's a similar situation here. The holding
11 company is a key person, and all of those people were
12 investigated, but the actual licensee is the subsidiary
14 COMMISSIONER SMITH: We actually investigate
15 the key persons in the holding company?
16 MR. MULLALLY: The holding company essentially
17 becomes a key person.
18 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Okay.
19 MR. MULLALLY: Just like the officers and
20 directors do. But the actual licensee is the company.
21 COMMISSIONER SMITH: I understand. I was
22 curious as to whether we go back to --
23 MR. MULLALLY: Yes, we do.
24 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: I move for adoption
25 of Resolution No. 01-004.
1 COMMISSIONER BATTLE: Second.
2 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: We have a motion and a
4 Angie, would you call the roll.
5 MS. FRANKS: Chairman Ullery?
6 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: In favor.
7 MS. FRANKS: Commissioner Smith?
8 COMMISSIONER SMITH: In favor.
9 MS. FRANKS: Commissioner Nikolaisen?
10 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: In favor.
11 MS. FRANKS: Commissioner Battle?
12 COMMISSIONER BATTLE: In favor.
13 MS. FRANKS: By your vote you've adopted
14 Resolution No. 01-004.
15 MR. MULLALLY: A side note, Commissioner Smith,
16 one of the things that you see in this job is some of the
17 more incredibly complicated corporate structures known to
18 man, and that is why I was always thankful to have Greg
19 Omer before Patricia, and Patricia now, to explain to me
20 what these things mean.
21 COMMISSIONER SMITH: It's a major job.
22 I think the public ought to realize how far you
23 go in investigating these people.
24 MR. MULLALLY: Yeah.
25 SERGEANT HAMILTON: Thank you.
1 MR. MULLALLY: Under Tab N, Mr. Chairman and
2 Commissioners, you'll find Resolution No. 01-001-B,
3 regarding a proposed settlement agreement with the
4 Sikeston Eagles Lodge bingo licensee.
5 And Mike Bradley from the Attorney General's
6 Office will make the presentation.
7 MR. BRADLEY: Good morning.
8 Before you, you have Sikeston Eagle Lodge.
9 Their violations were they had illegal machines there;
10 they had pull tabs that weren't purchased from a licensed
11 pull-tab supplier; they had recordkeeping problems, both
12 in their cash management and sending in their names to the
13 Gaming Commission; and they also had a worker who was
14 playing bingo and kind of helping out working at the same
15 time, which is, of course, prohibited.
16 The original proposed discipline was a six-
17 month suspension. And as we discuss with everyone in
18 these bingo cases, the bingo operators consider a six-
19 months suspension to be a death penalty. We're putting
20 them out of business.
21 The compromised settlement that we reached with
22 them would be a one-month suspension and would include a
23 $500 fine that would be paid from nonbingo accounts.
24 So we'd be hitting the members of the
25 organization for $500 out of their own accounts.
1 They, of course, have given assurances that all
2 of the paperwork problems have been corrected, that they
3 corrected the situation with the worker going back and
4 forth, and the machines are gone, and they're going to buy
5 the pull tabs from the people that they're supposed to.
6 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: It makes sense to me.
7 Do we have any comments, discussions?
8 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: I move for adoption
9 of Resolution No. 01-001-B.
10 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Do we have a second?
11 COMMISSIONER BATTLE: Second.
12 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: We have a second.
14 MS. FRANKS: Chairman Ullery?
15 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: In favor.
16 MS. FRANKS: Commissioner Smith?
17 COMMISSIONER SMITH: In favor.
18 MS. FRANKS: Commissioner Nikolaisen?
19 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: In favor.
20 MS. FRANKS: Commissioner Battle?
21 COMMISSIONER BATTLE: In favor.
22 MS. FRANKS: By your vote you've adopted
23 Resolution No. 01-001-B.
24 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Mr. Chairman, under Tab O we
25 have two final orders of rulemaking. These are proposed
1 rule that you had previously adopted and have since gone
2 through the public hearing process.
3 And General Counsel Churchill will make the
5 MS. CHURCHILL: Good morning.
6 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Good morning.
7 MS. CHURCHILL: Mr. Chairman, members of the
8 Commission, under Tab O, the first item is a proposed new
9 rule, which was 11 CSR 45-17.015, and that allows people
10 who are on the DAP list to go on the boat for purposes of
11 employment only. And there were no comments received on
12 that rule.
13 COMMISSIONER SMITH: I'm curious, are we
14 receiving any requests from this other than the one lady
15 that is involved?
16 THE COURT REPORTER: I'm sorry. What was that?
17 COMMISSIONER SMITH: I think there was one lady
18 involved who had this problem, and I wonder if that's been
19 something that's affected anyone other than just the one
21 MS. CHURCHILL: I think we're looking to see if
22 our --
23 MR. MULLALLY: I don't see Melissa. I'm not
24 aware of anyone --
25 MS. FRANKS: She's here.
1 MR. MULLALLY: There she is.
2 MS. STEVENS: I didn't catch the conversation
4 MR. MULLALLY: Have we had any requests other
5 than Patty Farr from a casino employee to access the
6 disassociated persons list?
7 MS. STEVENS: I believe I've seen a record of
8 one, but I can't remember exactly who it was.
9 MR. MULLALLY: Where is Patty?
10 MS. STEVENS: Patty is here.
11 But I believe I saw a record of one in the
12 file. Not since I've come on board, but I've heard of
13 other people addressing it.
14 MR. MULLALLY: Patty Farr is here if you want
15 to --
16 MS. FARR: Can I make a comment on that?
17 MR. MULLALLY: Sure. Come on up so you can --
18 MS. FARR: When I approached the Gaming
19 Commission to do what I did, when employees try to be
20 disassociated, they are told they'll lose their jobs.
21 So that's why you don't see anyone else on the
22 list, because no one else would go as far as I did to
23 bring this to an issue to make it changed.
24 I'm involved in a 12-step program, and in that
25 12-step program there are -- there are several employees
1 that are trying to go that way, and were told if they
2 disassociate, they will lose their jobs. So they opt not
3 to do that, because it isn't an option. It isn't even a
4 choice for them.
5 And that's why I've pursued this to the extent
6 that I've done, because it should be an option. We should
7 have that choice as an employee -- an employee at a casino
8 to take advantages of the program that is offered.
9 Because it's -- it's -- as an employee, to me,
10 I -- I -- my job meant a lot to me. And the fact that I
11 would have different consequences upon not abiding by the
12 rules of that agreement, meaning my gaming license would
13 be in jeopardy because of the trespassing arrest, on top
14 of the trespassing charges themselves, being on that list
15 meant more to me probably than the general public.
16 And that's why I've taken it to this extreme,
17 and that's my opinion on that.
18 Yes, there are other employees who want to do
19 it, but out of fear of losing their job, they choose not
21 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Does this rule do what you
22 anticipated it might --
23 MS. FARR: Yes.
24 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: - or have you had an
25 opportunity to look at it?
1 MS. FARR: Yes, I did.
2 Kevin Mullally did send it to me, and I did see
3 it. I -- I feel -- I think when it was designed that it
4 was designed more for a new employee, not an existing
6 But I think it -- in this -- the way it's
7 written, that it can do for both the new and the existing
8 employee already.
9 So I like -- he sent me the first draft of it,
10 and I didn't agree with it real -- but I suggested some
11 changes. And he e-mailed me back the changes that were
12 made. And it appears to be worded that it will work for
13 both existing and people seeking employment.
14 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Thank you.
15 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Is there some way that you
16 can notify the various gaming companies of this rule, the
17 fact that there should be no incrimination as a result of
19 MR. MULLALLY: Yes, Commissioner.
20 Once the rule is effected, we will get notice
21 out to all of the licensees. I don't know whether we'll
22 go through the companies or not. We may just go directly
23 to the licensees.
24 And to follow up on what Patty said, it is
25 certainly our intent to offer this not only to new
1 employees but to existing employees as well, as well as
2 people who are not necessarily employed at a casino but
3 whose job may require them to go on the casino floor of --
4 the Coke machine guy or whoever, or EMT or somebody with
5 that type of job that may occasionally require them to go
6 on the casino floor.
7 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: So if I was on that list and
8 once this is a rule and I applied for a job, that could
9 not be used as a reason to deny me a job. Is that right?
10 MR. MULLALLY: Absolutely.
11 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Thank you.
12 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Mr. Chairman, I move the
13 adoption of 11 CSR 45.17.015.
14 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: Second.
15 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: We have a motion and we have
16 a second.
18 MS. FRANKS: Chairman Ullery?
19 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: In favor.
20 MS. FRANKS: Commissioner Smith?
21 COMMISSIONER SMITH: In favor.
22 MS. FRANKS: Commissioner Nikolaisen?
23 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: Favor.
24 MS. FRANKS: Commissioner Battle?
25 COMMISSIONER BATTLE: In favor.
1 MS. FRANKS: By your vote you've adopted the
2 final order of rulemaking 11 CSR 45-17.015.
3 COMMISSIONER SMITH: I think we ought to thank
4 you again for bringing this to our attention. We
5 appreciate it.
6 MS. CHURCHILL: Mr. Chairman, next under Tab O,
7 No. 2 is 11 CSR 45-31.005, which is an amended rule
8 regarding the processing of bingo disciplines.
9 Previously they were handled similar to
10 riverboat license disciplines here in-house at the Gaming
11 Commission. But after a review of the law, it's
12 determined that they belong really more appropriately at
13 the Administrative Hearing Commission, and that is what
14 this does.
15 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: I think I just saw one of
16 those come through.
17 MS. CHURCHILL: You may have. I believe
18 probably --
19 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Okay. Do we have any
21 MS. CHURCHILL: And I would add, also, no
22 comments were received on this rule.
23 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Okay. Do we have a motion,
25 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: I move for approval
1 of 11 CSR 45-31.005.
2 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Do we have a second?
3 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Second.
4 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: We have a motion and a
7 MS. FRANKS: Chairman Ullery?
8 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Favor.
9 MS. FRANKS: Commissioner Smith?
10 COMMISSIONER SMITH: In favor.
11 MS. FRANKS: Commissioner Nikolaisen?
12 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: Favor.
13 MS. FRANKS: Commissioner Battle?
14 COMMISSIONER BATTLE: In favor.
15 MS. FRANKS: By your vote you've adopted the
16 final order of rulemaking 11 CSR 45-31.005.
17 MR. MULLALLY: Mr. Chairman, on a personal
18 note, I'd also like to express my appreciation for Patty
19 Farr and her tenacity on this issue.
20 And I think it is a shining example of how a
21 citizen can affect the process and affect the laws. And I
22 mean, this is where the Erin Brockovichs of the world come
23 from. And she ought to be congratulated for her courage
24 in stepping up to the plate on this issue.
25 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: I agree. She's very
2 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: I think we grilled you just a
3 little bit early on, didn't we?
4 Thank you.
5 MS. FARR: Thank you.
6 MR. MULLALLY: Mr. Chairman, the next item on
7 the agenda is an update on the status of the Isle of Capri
8 construction project in -- construction projects in
9 Boonville and Kansas City.
10 And I believe Tom Campbell is here to speak for
11 the company.
12 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: I've been waiting to talk to
13 you, Mr. Campbell.
14 MR. CAMPBELL: Well, likewise, Chairman.
15 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Go ahead, if you will,
17 MR. CAMPBELL: Mr. Chairman, Commissioners,
18 Director Mullally, good morning. My name is Tom Campbell.
19 I'm a partner with the St. Louis law firm of Gallop,
20 Johnson and Neuman. I represent the Isle of Capri.
21 I'm here today to update you on two of the
22 ongoing projects; one, the first being in Kansas City.
23 This, as you're aware, is a casino that was
24 operating. The Isle of Capri acquired that casino and has
25 undertaken considerable renovation both on the interior
1 and the exterior of that facility.
2 The interior work is very near completion. The
3 water element has been completed, the escalator, the
4 facade of the buffet, Farradays Restaurant is opened and
5 doing business. The VIP room has been completed.
6 Still under construction on the interior work
7 is the Tradewinds Restaurant, the elevator and an updated
8 cashier area. That will -- that work on those three items
9 will take approximately two to three weeks.
10 In regards to the exterior renovation, the
11 intent of the Isle of Capri is to make this exterior
12 resemble as closely as feasible the historic facade of a
14 A pilot house is being added, smokestacks,
15 window treatments, decorative trim. And, really, the
16 hold-up at this point is the painting, and the hold-up is
17 the weather.
18 We are hopeful that the weather will cooperate
19 and we can get the painting done. And the Isle is
20 comfortable in representing to you today that the work
21 will be done in April, barring unforeseen inclement
23 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: And that never
24 happens in this state.
25 MR. CAMPBELL: No. And only in December.
1 Are there any questions on that update before I
2 move on to Boonville?
3 The Boonville project is not quite as far
4 along. The environmental work has been completed. DNR
5 approval is expected in a two- to three-week time frame.
6 All of the site earth work is 70 percent
7 complete. The excavation is 100 percent complete in the
8 basin. The pile work is 100 percent complete in the basin
9 and 80 percent complete in the pavilion area.
10 There is -- negotiations are ongoing with the
11 railroad concerning the spur work. We are optimistic that
12 those will be reached to some fruitful conclusion very --
13 very shortly.
14 A building permit has been obtained, was issued
15 on November 21st of last year. And the Isle is seeking
16 proposals on traffic flow and count study.
17 Barges are -- are in place with the elements
18 that are necessary for the completion of that phase.
19 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: Given what you have
20 just presented to us, what would be your guess, how far
21 behind is this from original expectations of completion?
22 MR. CAMPBELL: Prior to December I could have
23 reported to you that it was actually ahead of schedule.
24 With December it has fallen slightly behind.
25 Again, there is hope that with fair weather the
1 rest of the winter, that it can move along, with an
2 opening sometime in the fall.
3 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: Okay.
4 COMMISSIONER SMITH: I went over and looked at
5 your site yesterday. I knew this was coming up. And you
6 sure have moved a lot of dirt, I can say that. It looks
7 like one big mess right now in view of the weather and
8 everything. But I can see a lot of work has been done.
9 I don't know whether you're aware or not: The
10 Columbian Missourian came out with a headline story today
11 which is critical of your project, on the grounds that
12 people in Boonville -- some of them are still unhappy with
13 the riverboat. I don't know whether you've seen that or
15 MR. CAMPBELL: I haven't, Commissioner. Thank
16 you for bringing it to my attention.
17 COMMISSIONER SMITH: You might want to take a
18 look at it.
19 MR. CAMPBELL: Sure.
20 COMMISSIONER SMITH: There still seems to be
21 some difference of opinion in Boonville as to whether it
22 is or it is not desirable.
23 It does look like you have made substantial
24 progress on all of the earth moving. I didn't realize the
25 extent of it until you go out and see it.
1 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah, quite a bit. And
2 hopefully some of the negative comments that you're
3 alluding to are based in part on the visual appearance at
4 this point, with a lot of dirt and not a real pleasant
6 But as I think as the dirt is transformed into
7 the casino and all of the other things that go with it,
8 that those opinions will change.
9 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Do you-all feel confident
10 that you've exposed of the contaminants that were there in
11 the old junk yard and that sort of thing? Is DNR
12 satisfied that you've solved that problem?
13 MR. CAMPBELL: Well, they have that. And we're
14 still waiting for their formal approval. And until that
15 is forthcoming, we're cautiously optimistic.
16 It's been reported that those have been taken
17 care of by our environmental company.
18 COMMISSIONER SMITH: All right. And you have a
19 firm that is familiar with these requirements working on
21 MR. CAMPBELL: I have been told that the firm
22 is competent and has dealt with this.
23 COMMISSIONER SMITH: It's a major paperwork
24 job, I know.
25 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes.
1 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Nothing further.
2 COMMISSIONER BATTLE: I think in one report I
3 read that it would be --
4 THE COURT REPORTER: I'm sorry. I couldn't
5 hear you.
6 COMMISSIONER BATTLE: In one report, that it
7 would be opened in November.
8 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes. Again, if we get fair
9 weather the rest of the winter, it -- some time in the
10 fall. Whether it's closer to Labor Day or closer to
11 Thanksgiving, it's still uncertain. But we're optimistic
12 that it's going to move along on schedule.
13 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Any more questions in
14 reference to the two locations?
15 COMMISSIONER SMITH: But there hasn't been any
16 wavering as far as the city council and the governmental
17 authorities on support of your project, is there?
18 MR. CAMPBELL: Absolutely not.
19 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: I appreciate the report on
20 these two locations. And I don't want to put you on the
21 spot, but I may.
22 What can you tell me about Kimmswick? Or do
23 you handle that for them also?
24 MR. CAMPBELL. Yes. Gallop, Johnson, Newman is
25 the Missouri counsel for all three of the projects.
1 The Jefferson County project -- and I want to
2 emphasize that because I think there is a misperception
3 that this project is located in Kimmswick, and that is not
4 the case.
5 The Jefferson County project is moving along.
6 The letter offers have gone out to property owners for
7 properties that will need to be acquired for the access
8 road. With the exception of one property owner there have
9 been responses.
10 The Isle of Capri has had appraisals prepared
11 on these properties and their offer to these property
12 owners have been over the appraised value.
13 Now the next step will be for the property
14 owners to obtain their appraisals and, presumably, because
15 we believe our appraiser did his job and came up with a
16 fair appraisal, our presumption is that the property
17 owner's appraisal will be somewhere in the neighborhood,
18 and there will be an agreement reached on many of those
20 The -- there are several lawsuits pending.
21 Those are being handled in a court of law, and hopefully
22 will be resolved in the very near future.
23 But the -- as Commission knows, in the early
24 phases of a project, there is a lot of things that go on
25 that don't result in a pile of dirt appearing on the site.
1 And those things are progressing and are progressing along
2 in a timely fashion. And we're optimistic that we'll be
3 here a year from now reporting success and completion --
4 near completion on that project.
5 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: I don't want you to feel like
6 I'm pushing the project or I think it's behind, so on and
7 so forth. I just wanted to know some generalities, and
8 you've satisfied me for the moment.
9 I am going to request something for me, and
10 you'll have to talk to Kevin Mullally to see what is
12 I would -- if it's possible, I would like to
13 have an overlay of where everything is going to be.
14 And I don't know whether that is a request that
15 you can -- where the Isle can supply this or not. But we
16 have a large aerial photo here. If you have time, I'd
17 like for you to take a look at that, and I'd like to have
18 an overlay of where everything is going to be, or at
19 least -- and particularly roads, crossings, everything
20 that is involved. And relatively soon.
21 MR. CAMPBELL: Sure.
22 Not today though?
23 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Not today.
24 MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
25 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: That's all right.
1 MR. CAMPBELL: We'll be happy to do that.
2 Just to clarify, you want both the
3 structures -- the improvements to the property, as well as
4 access roads and that kind of thing?
5 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Yes.
6 MR. CAMPBELL: Okay. We will do that promptly
7 and forward it to staff, and they can certainly get it to
9 The -- you know, I don't want to convey to the
10 Commission that this project has been without problems.
11 There have been some areas that we have been questioned by
12 staff about -- let me give you an example.
13 The archeological studies. We have -- would
14 like to proceed with the archeological site visits and
15 data recovery efforts. We have been blocked from doing
16 that and denied access to the leasehold, as well as the
17 property where the casino will be constructed, as well as
18 at one particular piece of property that will need to be
19 acquired in order for the access road to be constructed.
20 And until we have access to those properties,
21 we're -- we're not able to proceed at least with that one
22 element of the entire project.
23 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: Is that part of a
24 lawsuit now?
25 MR. CAMPBELL: Well, there are a couple of
1 lawsuits, one which is going to be tried most likely the
2 end of February or beginning of March.
3 It has to do with an allegation by a property
4 owner that there was a trespass on the property -- on
5 their property, and that will need to be decided by a
6 court of law.
7 There is another lawsuit involved, and it's not
8 quite moving along as quickly as the trespass lawsuit.
9 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: But this isn't part
10 of a lawsuit, trying to obtain those studies and the
11 leasehold which you were just describing?
12 MR. CAMPBELL: It is -- the lawsuit was -- was
13 brought because of an allegation of a trespass. And the
14 resolution of the lawsuit, we believe, will establish that
15 the -- that one point of ingress and egress to the
16 leasehold where the casino would be constructed is a road
17 that can be used.
18 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: Okay.
19 MR. CAMPBELL: And then once that it is
20 established --
21 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: So it is related to
22 that problem? That's my question.
23 MR. CAMPBELL: It is.
24 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: Okay.
25 MR. CAMPBELL: But there are other things that
1 are also related to that problem.
2 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: Okay.
3 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Maybe you can't answer this,
4 but trespass, is that the equipment trespass-type thing
5 that we've heard about, or whatever?
6 I don't want you to explain anything that you
7 don't feel comfortable with.
8 MR. CAMPBELL: Right.
9 There was an allegation of a trespass.
10 Specifically what the allegation, I just can't recall now
11 whether it was an allegation of a specific type of vehicle
12 involved in a trespass or a general trespass.
13 COMMISSIONER SMITH: A couple of questions, if
14 I might, on this.
15 Are you acquiring this property for the
16 right-of-way just by private purchase, or is there going
17 to be condemnation by the county on it?
18 MR. CAMPBELL: Well, the process starts with an
19 offer to negotiate a settlement and a purchase.
20 COMMISSIONER SMITH: I thought the condemning
21 authority has to make an offer in order to get
22 condemnation. I didn't know if the offer was coming
23 through the county or through you.
24 MR. CAMPBELL: Well, there needs to be a good-
25 faith attempt to acquire the property in a private
1 setting, and that has been undertaken.
2 And up to this point we -- the Isle has heard
3 responses from all but one of the property owners. And so
4 there is an expectation that there can be an accommodation
5 made with those properties owners to acquire the property.
6 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Is the property owner that
7 you're talking about the one where the salt springs are
8 located and potential Indian sites?
9 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes, Commissioner.
10 COMMISSIONER SMITH: You've made no progress in
11 respect to negotiation with him?
12 MR. CAMPBELL: Without getting into a lot of
13 the negotiations, we have made a good-faith effort and
14 thus far we have not been successful in getting a
16 COMMISSIONER SMITH: I think you have -- at
17 least I know the State has authority to go on the property
18 to do a condemnation, but I assume a private condemnation
19 you do not have that right to go on private property for
20 the purposes of making a survey, or not?
21 MR. CAMPBELL: At this point we're not at the
22 condemnation phase. We're still trying to acquire this
23 property as a private entity. And we're optimistic that
24 with the majority, if not all, of the property, that will
25 be accomplished without any condemnation.
1 COMMISSIONER SMITH: I guess that's my biggest
2 concern, that the nature of the situation with the salt
3 springs and architectural (sic) things may cause you some
4 substantial delays. And I didn't know the extent.
5 MR. CAMPBELL: We don't believe it will be of a
6 substantial nature, but we can't say that until we get on
7 the property to see where --
8 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Is there any alternative
9 to the location of the route where that could be avoided?
10 MR. CAMPBELL: Not without infringing on far
11 more property owners. This really is the most direct
12 route which infringes on the fewest number of property
14 If you take the proposed road, to the north
15 you're going to hit some subdivisions. And you can't go
16 too far south because you have topographical issues to
17 deal with.
18 COMMISSIONER SMITH: I guess the other concern
19 I had was -- and I think you probably have solved this
20 question -- is railroads.
21 Originally you had a ground-level post; now
22 you're going to an overpass?
23 MR. CAMPBELL: That's my understanding of the
24 latest approach, yes.
25 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Which makes more sense
1 from a safety point of view.
2 MR. CAMPBELL: It sure does.
3 COMMISSIONER SMITH: How far are you on the
4 railroad with that?
5 MR. CAMPBELL: There has been an oral agreement
6 on that. It is now going to be reduced to writing.
7 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Aren't there two railroad
9 MR. CAMPBELL: I believe there are.
10 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Don't forget our overlay.
11 MR. CAMPBELL: I will.
12 COMMISSIONER SMITH: I think it's -- we're
13 hoping that this is something that you can resolve with
14 the local people, and I assume you're working hard at
16 MR. CAMPBELL: Well, we are. The Isle is very
17 sensitive to becoming part of the community.
18 In Kansas City and with Boonville, I think
19 they've already demonstrated that inclination.
20 In Jefferson County they, likewise, are very
21 interested in becoming part of the fabric of that whole
23 And will there be a day when you do not have
24 individuals complaining about a gaming facility at some
25 location in the state? Probably not.
1 But the Isle of Capri has a long history in its
2 other location, and it's establishing a long history in
3 Boonville and Kansas City of living up to their commitment
4 to become part of the community and become good corporate
6 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Do you have any firm
7 commitment from the county that if necessary they will
8 condemn this road?
9 MR. CAMPBELL: That's been -- yes, that's been
11 COMMISSIONER SMITH: They've taken some action,
12 or how have they committed to you?
13 MR. CAMPBELL: I cannot recall right now if
14 that's been reduced to writing. I can certainly get that
15 answer for you. But there has certainly been a firm
16 commitment to follow through on that if necessary.
17 COMMISSIONER SMITH: I guess I'm just concerned
18 that every effort is made to accommodate the people of
19 Jefferson County, to cause the least disruption as
20 possible on this project, and I hope that you are doing
22 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes, sir. It is always a goal
23 of the Isle at whatever location they're involved in, and
24 they really attempt to go the extra mile to ensure that
25 everyone is being treated fairly and that the disruption
1 in the community is minimal and that the -- what the
2 community gets back far exceeds any disruption or anything
4 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Sorry to take up so much
5 time, but I think this is important.
6 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: We may want some further
7 comment from the Isle people and you or whoever. But the
8 first order of business is the overlays and so on and so
9 forth so the Commission can look at that.
10 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes, Mr. Chairman. We'll
11 produce that promptly.
12 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Thank you.
13 MR. CAMPBELL: Any other questions?
14 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Thank you again.
15 MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you.
16 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Kevin.
17 MR. MULLALLY: Yes, sir.
18 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Next is Mark Twain -
19 LaGrange. Correct?
20 MR. MULLALLY: That's correct.
21 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: After that one we're going to
22 take a short break.
23 MR. MULLALLY: That will work great, because
24 they need to set up some equipment.
25 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Who does?
1 MR. MULLALLY: You're very perceptive.
2 Dr. Nower.
3 So if we do --
4 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: I must be psychic, because I
5 didn't realize it.
6 MR. MULLALLY: You are very perceptive.
7 The next presentation is -- we will hear from
8 Mr. Bill Grace and Larry Seckington regarding the progress
9 of the construction project in LaGrange.
10 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Mr. Grace, are you first on
11 the agenda, or last?
12 MR. GRACE: I'm last.
13 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Last?
14 MR. GRACE: Never let me talk first.
15 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Well, that is what I was
17 MR. SECKINGTON: Mr. Chairman, we have some
18 photographs for the staff.
19 THE COURT REPORTER: Your name is?
20 MR. SECKINGTON: Larry Seckington.
21 Mr. Chairman, Commissioners, I'm Larry
22 Seckington with Mark Twain Casino. With me today are
23 Bruce Schmitter, the Director of Operations, and
24 Mr. Grace, one of the principal owners of the facility.
25 We've passed out to you a little cover letter
1 that gives you a little background on our project
2 concerning the size and cost and the ownership and
3 management of the project, along with the organizational
4 chart, to show you how the company is organized.
5 On the second page of our letter, however, we
6 have some bulletin points that we thought we'd touch on
7 very briefly to bring you on to date where we are with our
8 LaGrange project.
9 As you probably know, LaGrange is just across
10 the river from Quincy, Illinois. It's a small town in
11 Missouri of about 1,142 people. So you can imagine the
12 economic impact that this project is going to have on that
14 Their current budget is about $600,000 a year.
15 Our proposed revenue, if we meet our projections, will
16 generate about a-million-four for that community each
17 year. So they're anxiously awaiting our opening.
18 We have had a great relationship with the City
19 of LaGrange.
20 When we first proposed our project, they went
21 out and organized a group called the LaGrange
22 Revitalization Organization. And between the City and
23 that revitalization organization, we have acquired or
24 leased all of the property necessary for this project.
25 The LaGrange Revitalization Organization
1 actually accumulated a major portion of our real estate we
2 needed, and then we purchased it from them.
3 With the proceeds from that sale, they have
4 constructed the first new building in LaGrange in several,
5 several years. It's -- it now houses their library. And
6 they have two spaces available for retail openings on --
7 right on Main Street. So we've already started to have an
8 economic impact with the City.
9 We have a docking arrangement with the City
10 which spells out all financial obligations of our company,
11 which we'll start -- we're supposed to start paying when
12 we first open.
13 However, there were a couple of projects that
14 came up from the City's standpoint that they needed money
15 for. One was the new fire station.
16 And so rather than wait until opening, we
17 advanced them $100,000 to finish their fire station, which
18 is now completed, and they're inhabitating that.
19 The next thing that happened was Lieutenant
20 Matt Brown of your staff contacted me and contacted the
21 City with respect to whether or not they had a sufficient
22 size police force to -- to handle our opening. We
23 determined they did not.
24 And a joint meeting with Gaming Commission
25 staff and the City, it was determined that they would have
1 to hire another three or four officers and another
2 dispatcher or two sufficiently ahead of our opening to be
3 able to get them trained.
4 So our company advanced another $100,000 to the
5 City so that they could make those arrangements.
6 So as you can see, we've already -- we've
7 already had an economic impact with that community, and
8 the economic impact after we open will be substantial.
9 As I said, the lease and the options with the
10 LRO, we have an additional 14 or 15 lots which we are
11 leasing from the LRO. We have an option to purchase those
12 at some point in time in the future for a set amount of
14 But in the meantime, our lease payments to the
15 LRO allow them to make their bank payment for the new
16 building that they have constructed.
17 So we have already had, like I say, an economic
18 impact with the City. And we have a very, very good
19 relationship with the City. We've had no problem at all.
20 I think that there are maybe four or five amendments to
21 our original docking agreement that we have negotiated
22 with the City, and they've not been a problem at all.
23 I'd like to have Bruce Schmitter talk to you
24 about the employee requirements, the current employees and
25 our job fairs and our training schedules. And Mr. Grace
1 will conclude our presentation with some pictures of our
2 current status of the construction.
3 MR. SCHMITTER: Thank you very much. I'd like
4 to just take a few minutes.
5 As Larry said earlier, there is about 1,100
6 people in LaGrange. As you all may be well aware, it's a
7 rather small, rural community.
8 And when you go in and you're going to hire a
9 large, stabilized work force, it would probably be about
10 275 FTEs.
11 When you go in to hire a number of people out
12 of a small community, you're always a little skeptical
13 about what is going to happen.
14 But I'm happy to say that we had our first job
15 fair to begin dealing on our dealer school that will be
16 starting at the end of February, the 19th and 20th of this
18 And I'm happy to say we had almost
19 800 applicants come through the door, which has been close
20 to a three-to-one ratio, which we haven't had the luxury
21 of having on some of our other openings that we have done.
22 So we are very, very happy with actually the
23 number of people that came through for the limited basis
24 that we had, as well as the quality of the people. It was
25 very refreshing, very friendly people, very open, and I
1 think pretty excited about this opportunity for themselves
2 and for the community.
3 As I said --
4 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: Can I ask you just a
5 quick question there?
6 Were most of those from Missouri, or did that
7 include people from Quincy, Illinois, across the river?
8 MR. SCHMITTER: Actually, Quincy is only about
9 15 minutes away. And so we did have a large number of
10 people out of Illinois, because the bridge goes right
11 across the river at Illinois and a lot of access to
12 Illinois, those counties along the river there, so there
13 was a number of Illinois residents as well.
14 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Any problems with minority
15 applicants in that area?
16 MR. SCHMITTER: Actually, the minority make-up
17 in that area is probably -- is a small percentage. We
18 had, I think, probably a good representative mix at our
19 job fair from what -- for the population base that is
21 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: How many applications did you
22 say you received or -- well, not applications but
23 attendees, if you will?
24 MR. SCHMITTER: Approximately 800.
25 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: 800. For 275 jobs?
1 MR. SCHMITTER: Well, actually we were just --
2 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Or roughly.
3 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Yeah, 275, probably, FTE
4 stabilized workforce is where we'll be at.
5 And this particular job fair, we were actually
6 identifying people for the dealer's school, which is a
7 substantially smaller number than the total population.
8 Of course, we were taking applications for everything at
9 the time.
10 We will be also doing another job fair probably
11 two months in advance for opening. So I'm kind of excited
12 to see what happens with the second go-around where we're
13 actually closer to opening.
14 We do currently have a controller on staff, and
15 we're in the midst of the general manager selection
16 process. We should have that finished up fairly shortly.
17 As I said, the end of February, we'll probably
18 be opening in February, the first of March. We'll be
19 opening up our dealer school, to make sure we have a long
20 enough time to train our table games employees prior to
22 With that, I will turn it over to Mr. Grace,
23 and he can give you an update on construction and timing.
24 MR. GRACE: Construction is going very nicely
25 in spite of the winter. We were a little ahead of
1 schedule until the real nasty stuff hit us.
2 The land acquisition of this site was no small
3 task. This whole entire site was under water, had been
4 flooded, was made up of small 50-foot lots, streets,
5 allies and water running every direction. But it has --
6 the total thing has been acquired now.
7 The first thing we had to do was bring in
8 400,000 square foot of -- I mean, cubic yards of fill to
9 bring it up out of the flood elevation. That has been
11 You're looking at the front of the building as
12 you'd see it -- if my pointer would work, and it doesn't.
13 The highway that you entered -- the method of
14 entry into this facility will be the highway, what you see
15 right in front of it, in front of the facility.
16 That to the right -- again, my pointer doesn't
17 work. Over here is the -- is the casino. Inside there is
18 our floating pontoons. This is the main entryway.
19 Over here is the restaurants, dining rooms and
20 the back the office.
21 Just another look at the site. You can't see
22 it from that photo; but right out in the middle of that,
23 there is probably five foot of dirt that's been hauled in.
24 Just a little -- another side shot, showing you
25 the front, again.
1 Again, this is the portico. This is the main
2 entering into it. This is the casino -- main part of the
3 casino, and over here is the restaurant, whatnot.
4 We're just now -- like I said, had we been two
5 to three weeks earlier of getting this enclosed, we would
6 have been way further ahead than we are now. But we
7 couldn't -- we had it open in, and we were basically shut
8 down for four or five weeks.
9 There is the highway again, going by the side
10 of the building. This is the north end of the building.
11 This will be the paddle wheel. You can't see it there,
12 but there is an opening in there. That's where we're
13 bringing the barges, the pontoons in, and assembling the
15 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Where does the highway go
16 from, Mr. Grace?
17 MR. GRACE: The highway just comes in from the
18 interstate, loops around through LaGrange, and back out to
19 the interstate again, back towards Canton.
20 COMMISSIONER SMITH: And how far are you from
21 the interstate?
22 MR. GRACE: Oh. Two miles, a mile and a half,
23 two miles.
24 This is the back showing the loading dock,
25 whatnot. This will be employee parking back over in this
2 It shows the back entrance into the kitchen,
3 with this being the main entryway and this being in front
4 of the building again.
5 There is the highway again, just -- there is
6 that hole I was telling you about, where we're shoving the
7 pontoons through, making up the pontoons. We hope to have
8 this sealed up probably in two weeks.
9 This shows the pontoons. They are coming in in
10 two pieces. We then weld them together in the pit. This
11 is all in the pit. There is the floor elevation there.
12 So all of those barges we hope to have in there by Monday
13 of next week.
14 This is the interior -- interior shot, showing
15 like you were standing in the main entrance. This will be
16 the dining room off here. All of this will be open here
17 going back to the casino.
18 This is the only piece of interior slab that
19 isn't poured, this main entrance right in here. We have a
20 lot of equipment in there working on it. As soon as we're
21 through with that, we'll pour it.
22 This shows the back. You can see, we've
23 starting studding up the walls. We're starting with the
24 fire ceiling. That will not be the finished ceiling.
25 That's just the fire ceiling up there, with the ductwork
1 underneath it. I would say the ductwork is probably
2 50 percent completed. And, again, the slab is poured back
3 in this area.
4 That's it. We -- we think we're on schedule.
5 We plan on opening sometime in June. We can't be any more
6 specific than that at this time. Maybe the first part of
7 the month, maybe the last part of the month, depending on
8 the weather and a few other things. But we want to be
9 open by the 4th of July.
10 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Thank you, gentlemen.
11 MR. SECKINGTON: Thank you very much.
12 MR. GRACE: Thank you.
13 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Do we have any questions from
14 anybody up here?
15 COMMISSIONER SMITH: No.
16 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Thanks again.
17 At this particular time we're going to take
18 about a ten-minute break.
19 (A RECESS WAS TAKEN.)
20 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Come to order, please.
21 MR. MULLALLY: Mr. Chairman, members of the
22 Commission, the next item on the agenda has to do with an
23 educational presentation on problem gambling.
24 As you may recall, early last year we had our
25 first educational presentation before the Commission on
1 problem gaming issues, and we heard from Dr. Ken Winters
2 from the University of Minnesota, School of Medicine, and
3 Keith Spare, the President of the Missouri Council on
4 Problem Gambling, and Dr. Renee Cunningham Williams and
5 Dr. Linda Cottler from Washington University. And the
6 Commission was very receptive to these types of
8 It's my pleasure and the staff's pleasure today
9 to have Dr. Lia Nower, who is an assistant professor of
10 social work and a research fellow in both the Public
11 Policy Research and International Center at the University
12 of Missouri-St. Louis.
13 Dr. Nower received a Fulbright research
14 fellowship in youth gambling from McGill University in
15 Montreal, Canada, and National Institute of Mental Health
16 fellowship from Washington University, and a research
17 internship award at the National Research Council in
18 Washington D.C.
19 Lia is a licensed attorney and former criminal
20 prosecutor. She provides evaluation and consultation for
21 government, industry and corporate clients, and expert
22 witness testimony. She is a nationally certified
23 compulsive gambling counselor and clinical supervisor for
24 the National Council on Problem Gambling.
25 Dr. Nower treats adolescent and adult gamblers
1 in her private practice and conducts national and
2 international trainings for professional -- for treatment
4 Her research interests include the
5 identification and treatment of youth, minority and senior
6 gamblers, and the legal implications of excessive gambling
7 for families and communities.
8 As you know, prior to becoming acting director,
9 problem gambling was an area of particular focus for me,
10 and I hope we'll continue to be.
11 Lia has been an invaluable resource for our
12 staff. She is a friend of the Gaming Commission, and we
13 get a lot of free advice out of her. So it's my pleasure
14 to introduce Dr. Lia Nower.
15 DR. NOWER: Thank you.
16 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Welcome, Dr. Nower.
17 DR. NOWER: Thank you after that buildup.
18 Kevin asked me today -- since last time you
19 looked at epidemiology issues, basically, I'm going to
20 focus on current directions in etiology and treatment
21 research, because as a treater, that's my primary
23 Youth gambling is my subspecialty, so I'm going
24 to start off with youth and some recent findings that
25 we've had, and then put that into a larger treatment model
1 that's going to be tested this summer, part of it.
2 Some issues in youth gambling: What we're
3 really interested in looking at right now is how do we
4 identify youth or at-risk for disordered gambling?
5 When I talk about disordered gambling, I'm kind
6 of lumping problem and pathological together.
7 What factors are most important in preventing
8 and treating youth gambling, and what can government,
9 industry and educators do to lessen the prevalence of
10 disordered youth gambling?
11 The research is in its infancy, and I had the
12 privilege, like Kevin said, of receiving a Fulbright from
13 the U. S./Canadian government to go and work with
14 Dr. Jeff Derevensky and Rina Gupta, who have done the
15 really -- the beginning work in youth gambling at McGill
16 in Montreal in the treatment side of it.
17 So we did this nine-month study. And we wanted
18 to see the relationship of disordered gambling to
19 impulsivity and sensation seeking.
20 These are two dispositional factors that we
21 have found in adults to be people who are more impulsive
22 and tend to seek intense stimulation, in particular, are
23 more prone to developing a gambling problem.
24 We also were interested in stress-coping
25 styles, the ways in which people deal with individual
1 stressors in their lives. And we know from alcohol and
2 drug research, that people who tend to abuse more, have
3 fewer problem-solving coping skills and more avoided-
4 coping skills when they're confronted with the stress.
5 And this is typically learned behavior from
6 their parents, or their caregivers. We wanted to see
7 those relationships and whether or not the coping skills
8 may moderate in any way, meaning lessen or amplify, the
9 dispositional predictors and the incidents of gambling.
10 Just to show you, we conducted the study with
11 1,339 youths in the Montreal area, ages 17 to 21. The
12 legal age of gambling is 18 in Montreal. It's very
13 similar to here with the penalties and the new Senate bill
14 and that. It's equivalent in the way that they treat it.
15 Nongamblers, no gambling in the past year.
16 101 male, 150 female. Low-risk gamblers are ones who
17 endorse zero to two symptoms on the DSM-IV-J, which is an
18 instrument for adolescent gambling out of England by Sue
20 At-risk gamblers endorsed three symptoms. So
21 these are the kids that are sort of right on the cusp of
22 developing a problem. And then pathological gamblers met
23 full criteria on the instrument, which is four plus
24 symptoms out of twelve.
25 Just by way of background -- and I know you've
1 heard from Ken Winters, probably, some of this before. We
2 found things that are pretty much in keeping with what we
4 Males overwhelmingly reported more gambling.
5 About 84 percent of males and about 79 percent of females
6 reported that they had gambled in the past year.
7 Of those about 27 percent of males gambled once
8 a week or more, and the females about 12 percent. So
9 substantially fewer females.
10 Distribution by age. Nongamblers,
11 18.7 percent. Low-risk, 73.6. At-risk, 3.6. And
12 probable pathological gamblers, 4 percent.
13 That is consistent with what has been found in
14 other studies. The DSM-IV-J is a more conservative
15 measure than what Ken Winters uses. He uses the SOGS RA.
16 So you'll see a higher prevalence raised
17 slightly in his research.
18 Typically the adolescent prevalence rate for
19 pathological gambling is about double the adult rate,
20 depending on where the prevalence study is conducted.
21 Just so you'll get an idea, the percentage of
22 youth that engage in this various gambling activities, by
23 and large, the lottery is the most popular. And most of
24 these kids report that they got their first lottery ticket
25 from their parents in their Christmas stocking, and they
1 have sort have been hooked ever since.
2 Slot machines were much more popular in this
3 age group. My colleagues in Canada had done a similar
4 study. We asked some of the same questions with younger
5 kids, ages 12 to 16. And slots and video poker jumped in
6 prominence among this age group, which I'll talk about in
7 a minute.
8 We found an alarming trend in the preference of
9 youth for slot and video poker machines, which we know
10 feature a highly addictive behavioral reinforcement
12 It's much more difficult to treat, in my
13 experience, people who are addicted to these kind of
14 machines than, for example, the table or the action
15 gambler, because with the action gambler, the course is
16 longer. It's more protracted. So you have less of a
17 grasp this kind of activity, love it, do it so much that
18 you're having a difficult time extinguishing it.
19 So it's more difficult to treat the slot
20 machine players. More than 60 -- 76 percent of
21 pathological gamblers and 70.8 percent of at-risk gamblers
22 play video poker. 52.7 percent and 20.8 percent at least
24 And as you can see, almost 90 percent of
25 pathological gamblers and 73 percent of at-risk gamblers
1 played slots, and half of those and over a quarter of
2 these weekly.
3 Just to show you where the difference is, a lot
4 of times we get asked, what symptoms really show when a
5 youth is developing a problem.
6 And chasing was the number one endorsed symptom
7 among all gamblers. You know, when I lose or when I win,
8 I want to go back the next day and I want to repeat this.
9 Preoccupation, the same thing. I find myself
10 thinking of gambling at odd times of the day. Those two
11 things were sort of common.
12 But tolerance was really the determining
13 factor. When I win, when I gamble with a certain amount
14 of money, I find I have to gamble more frequently and with
15 more money to get the same arousal level. That was 8th
16 with low-risk gamblers. It was 3rd with at-risk and
17 probably pathological gamblers.
18 So that's the symptom that we found that in
19 this particular study was the most telling.
20 We also looked at drug and alcohol use in this
21 population. And this is not going to be surprising to
23 We found that among nongamblers, they tended to
24 use without a problem or not use more. And the use --
25 problematic use of drugs and alcohol increases linearly
1 across levels of gambling severity.
2 It is highest, most interestingly, in the
3 at-risk gamblers. They have the highest amount of problem
4 substance use. And when I asked some of the pathological
5 gamblers why this was, they said, well, when you gamble at
6 our level, why waste money on drugs and alcohol.
7 So they still had a high level of problem use
8 but not quite as high as the at-risk gamblers.
9 About -- whoops. Well, I said 25 percent of
10 these kids gambled with their parents. And we asked them
11 questions about their perception, whether their mother or
12 father had a drug or alcohol problem or a gambling
14 We don't know if this true. That is just what
15 you perceived.
16 And as you can tell, among pathological
17 gamblers, a father with a drinking or drug problem was
18 very significant. The same thing, a father with a
19 gambling problem, among the at-risk gamblers, was very
21 And the mother's behavior in this particular
22 sample was not as important.
23 That was with male youth. I'm sorry. I have
24 these divided by gender. Because the gender really showed
25 some differences, as you'll see with the coping skills.
1 Among females, pathological gamblers
2 overwhelmingly said, that if my father has a gambling
3 problem or my father has a drinking or drug problem, this
4 really makes the difference. And interestingly, there was
5 a huge dropoff with the at-risk gamblers. So you can see
6 this developmental modeling of behavior.
7 Just to give you a sense about where youths are
8 gambling, casinos are very popular. And as people
9 increase in severity, you see a much higher increase in
10 casinos, convenience stores for lottery tickets and
11 gambling with friends.
12 And, of course, pathological gamblers gamble in
13 more venues overall and with more people overall.
14 I was interested in how many of underage youth
15 were gambling at various locations, because they're not so
16 supposed to be buying lottery tickets and they're not
17 supposed to be in casinos.
18 And, yet, we found no significant differences
19 among the underage youth and how much they're in a casino,
20 or how much they're in the convenience store buying
21 lottery tickets.
22 As you can see, over 90 percent of the
23 pathological gambling underage youth get in casinos.
24 Those have legal deterrents. They still get in.
25 Risk and protective factors -- now, this is
1 where we looked at the dispositional characteristics.
2 And not surprisingly, we found that both
3 at-risk and probable pathological gamblers were
4 significantly higher than the others in their level of
5 innate impulsiveness, their inability to resist the urge
6 to just jump in. There is a whole level -- a group of
7 questions, just a general impatience, impulse control
9 With sensation seeking, we measured two kinds
10 of sensation seeking: novelty and intensity. And what we
11 saw, which is consistent with other growth gambling
12 studies, there is really no difference in novelty. You
13 know, kids that really need some new and different thing.
14 Among pathological gamblers it's the intensity
15 that is significant. The at-risk and pathological
16 gamblers have a need for really intense sensations that
17 are provided by lights and noise and sound and the arousal
18 of tables and things that are consistent with the gambling
20 We then looked at stress-coping variables. And
21 we found that among males, they endorse significantly
22 higher levels of avoided-coping styles. And this is
23 consistent with the substance abuse literature. It has
24 not ever been tested with gamblers, but it has been with
25 substance users.
1 Social diversion: I look to other people to
2 distract me from my stress.
3 Distraction: I do things to distract me from
4 my stress.
5 Mental disengagement: I think about other
6 things. I fantasize. I ruminate.
7 Denial: I just pretend that the stress isn't
9 Substance use: I drink, I use drugs to get
10 away from the problem.
11 Females, on the other hand, showed different
12 variables that were significant. For female, stress
13 coping served as protective rather than a risk factor.
14 Females who were higher in active: I take
15 action, I plan, I problem solve, were significantly less
16 likely to be disordered gamblers. And females, once
17 again, who use substances were much more likely to be
18 disordered gamblers.
19 Overall, we saw that males who sought intensity
20 were 11 percent more likely to become disordered gamblers.
21 All of these are. And who could copied by distraction
22 were 12 percent more likely. Who abused substances, were
23 3 percent more likely.
24 And among females, only the dispositional --
25 and this is in, like, a logistic regression. I didn't put
1 all of the statistical tables in to bore you to death.
2 But that is where these percentages come from.
3 Only the dispositional predictors were
4 significant. So the coping styles were not as significant
5 with females, but they were with males.
6 Very interestingly, we found that a male who
7 believed his father gambled too much was three times as
8 likely, in terms of odds, to become a disordered gambler.
9 And a female who believed her father abused
10 substances was two and a half times, in terms of odds, to
11 become a disordered gambler. So we see that patterning.
12 The implications of this for us, for practical
13 purposes, are that we need to identify highly impulsive
14 and intensity-seeking youth.
15 There is about a 50 percent comorbidity among
16 gamblers who also abuse substances. So they need to be
17 identified early. We need to assess their preferred
18 coping styles. And if they're avoidant, we need to teach
19 them problem-focus-coping styles.
20 And this can be done in educational settings,
21 as well as in treatment settings.
22 We need to address systematic -- the systemic
23 issues. For example, parents who gamble with their
24 children and model addictive behaviors are likely to
25 foster the disorder in their children.
1 And we need to identify and address issues of
2 comorbidity, like, substance use and other things.
3 The other thing that we need to do -- and this
4 is sort of the segue into the second part of this
5 presentation, is that we need to stop treating all
6 gamblers alike.
7 There is this notion in the treatment community
8 that we get a gambler and this is what we do with them.
9 And a person that I work with in Australia,
10 Alex Blaszczynski, who has written a book called,
11 Overcoming Compulsive Gambling, has positive -- what is
12 called the pathways model.
13 And he believes there is essentially three ways
14 in which someone becomes an addictive gambler, and we need
15 to identify what path the person fits in and assign the
16 correct treatment modality.
17 And briefly, I'm going to go over this model
18 for you.
19 If you have any -- do you have any questions?
20 And I'm going to fit the youth -- sort of fits
21 in here. You'll be able to see.
22 Ecological factors, the accessibility and the
23 availability of gambling.
24 Now, the pathway one gambler is the normal
25 gambler. They don't really have problems in their lives.
1 They don't have psychological problems. They may start
2 gambling with their peers. Or they may be an elderly
3 person whose spouse has died and they're lonely, or
4 they're retired and have a lot of time.
5 So they go to a venue to gamble, and through
6 classical and operant conditioning, we find that they
7 become very addicted to the arousal level, both the
8 subjective excitement. This is psychologically exciting
9 and physiologically, my heart races, et cetera,
10 et cetera.
11 And they begin to develop these erroneous
12 cognitions. You know, I think this machine speaks to me.
13 You've heard -- I'm sure the people that work in the
14 casinos have heard all of these kinds of things.
15 I know that they have little cameras in the
16 ceiling, and they know I'm here, and they tune this
17 machine down. I've heard all of this in treatment. I'm,
18 like, okay.
19 Biased evaluations: We have lots of excuses
20 for why we win, but we don't -- we minimize our losses.
21 Then what happens with these particular folks
22 is they develop these things, and the increased
23 involvement establishes this habitual pattern of gambling.
24 It goes from being a occasional, to being
25 frequent, to being regular and heavy. And then they begin
1 to have financial problems, and they chase their losses,
2 and that leads to problem gambling.
3 That is pathway one.
4 The demographics of these folks, typically,
5 there is a late onset. They have a shorter period of
6 excessive gambling. They reach their bottom much quicker.
7 Their financial problems are less severe.
8 They had stability in childhood in their family
9 history. They have no psychopathology. They're not
10 depressed. They don't have a personality disorder. They
11 may be depressed when you see them, but it's because of
12 the financial pressure. And their substance abuse is
14 We should treat them essentially by cessation
15 or reduction through their own volition, and they have a
16 positive response to very minimal treatment. These are
17 the folks that we have a lot of success.
18 Pathway two gamblers, you have the same things.
19 You have the ecological factors and the conditioning
20 factors, but add to this vulnerability factors. And this
21 is what we saw a lot with the youth.
22 And those vulnerability: childhood
23 disturbance, some kind of trauma or parents weren't home,
24 parents gambled. Their personality. They're high in risk
25 taking, impulsive, depressed, prone to boredom.
1 They seek either a lot of stimulation or things
2 that had zone them out. They have poor coping and problem
4 If they're older when we see them, we see
5 marital discord, substance abuse, life stresses.
6 Then add to the vulnerability factors that they
7 gamble as a way to escape boredom or depression or some of
8 these vulnerability factors. And then that -- the
9 demographs of these folks, they've had a dysfunctional,
10 traumatic childhood, situational stress, poor coping
12 They typically have moderate levels of
14 And from a clinical standpoint we find that
15 they're anxious or depressed. They may have bipolar
16 disorder. They gamble and abuse substances often to
17 escape emotionally.
18 In males they're looking more for a rush. In
19 females they're more looking for escape from depression.
20 Treatment implications: We use psychological
21 interventions, cognitive behavior and supportive therapy,
22 stress management. We advocate abstinence and sometimes
23 an antidepressant, referral to a psychiatrist.
24 This is the final pathway. We see all of the
25 same things as we saw in pathway two. But these folks
1 also have biological correlates.
2 And those are basically biochemical -- and I'm
3 not going to go overall of these chemicals, because you'll
4 really fall asleep.
5 But, essentially, the significance of
6 mentioning these, is that we see all of these biological
7 things in these folks, and we often see attention deficit
8 disorder, early evidence of conduct disorder in kids,
9 seeking pleasure, dopaminergic responses in the brain.
10 And the reward/punishment system is very
11 important. And the genetic research being done by
12 Cummings really addresses this piece, and that is, that
13 some people genetically are prone to seek things that
14 stimulate the reward pathway in the temporal path of their
16 And these folks are basically what they're
17 talking about. And so that's a much more convoluted way
18 of getting to the same problem. They also have associated
19 behaviors, criminality, substance abuse and impaired
21 And let me say about this, I have -- just so
22 you see what -- let me go over this first. I'm sorry.
23 Just to recap the demographs: Early onset of
24 problem gambling, severe financial problems, early history
25 of instability and impulsivity, lots of psychopathology,
1 substance abuse, ADHD systems, broad spectrum of criminal
3 Alex calls these the antisocial, impulsivist
5 Treatment implications: Poor response to
6 treatment. Medication may or may not work with these
7 folks. And this is sort of the whole -- the whole -- his
8 whole model.
9 This summer I'll be going to Australia to work
10 with him in the in-patient gambling treatment unit. And
11 we're going to be trying some of these treatments on the
12 different gamblers that we put in these different
14 And one thing I want to mention, what is an
15 interest to me right now from a legal standpoint is, that
16 we have programs for drug and alcohol abusers, diversion
17 programs, in our criminal justice system to keep folks
18 from, let's say, who are in pathway one or pathway two
19 from just going to prison.
20 They are 60 years old. They have never had a
21 speeding ticket, but they've embezzled $200,000. What do
22 we do with these folks?
23 There is nothing right now. There is nothing
24 to do with these folks.
25 Now, with drug and alcohol offenders, when I
1 was a prosecutor, if the person could make restitution for
2 their crime, they may be more likely to get probation.
3 But a 60-year-old person is probably not going
4 to repay $200,000 in restitution, so they end up going to
5 prison. And I've heard a lot of stories in GA about that.
6 And we need to come up with something.
7 So in summary, all gamblers are not created
8 equal. And this is a whole new way of looking at
10 There are three pathways or possibly more. And
11 as we begin to research this more, we'll fine-tune this.
12 Each pathway entails different risk and
13 protective factors. Diagnosis requires sophisticated
14 screening. And I'm encouraged to see that the Department
15 of Mental Health is recognizing that they need to begin to
16 award gambling contracts to people who -- as it is, the
17 people who are not in State agencies cannot get the
18 gambling contracts.
19 So those of us that have the highest
20 credentials and don't work in the State agencies do not
21 have access to the State funds, which seems sort of
22 antithetical to the highest level of treatment you can buy
23 for your money.
24 But they have recognized this in their, and I
25 understand, you know, going to put out an RFP soon, so
2 Effective treatment requires the use of
3 different treatment modalities and the involvement of the
4 whole family system.
5 As we could see from the youth gamblers, it's
6 very important, we can't just look at these kids and treat
7 them a vacuum. We need to look at the whole family and
8 how they deal with problems and what their addictive
9 behaviors comprise of.
10 Thank you.
11 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: I've got a question.
12 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: Go ahead.
13 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: I'm going to admit, I'm a
14 crazy old man. But I remember -- I remember when I was a
15 teenager and a young person, that I thought people my age
16 and even younger were crazy and didn't see the world like
17 it really was. I have generally switched roles now.
18 And what I'm getting to is, it doesn't seem to
19 me what I gather from this is much different than what I
20 perceive of society in general, and I'm talking about the
21 younger generation. I'm not putting them down.
22 But the impatience, need to be entertained, the
23 boredom. I see that in my own grandchildren. And yet
24 there is more and more and more things for these children
25 to do.
1 So being the crazy old guy that I used to look
2 at and talk about, there is not a good answer, but is
3 there any answer?
4 I mean, when we have more to do, why are we
6 DR. NOWER: Because, in my own personal
7 opinion, I think that back when you were growing up, you
8 know, roles between males and females were more defined.
9 And you probably had more direct maternal attention.
10 Kid nowadays are coming from two-parent
11 households who both have to work to make ends meet, or
12 want to work. The kids are, you know, in day-care or a
13 babysitter. They don't get that individual attention.
14 That attention is supplanted by video games, things that
15 are arousal, provoking and stimulating.
16 If the kids don't sit still, they get put on
17 Ritalin at five years old.
18 And so the problem is a problem in the family
19 system and societally as a whole rather than just with the
21 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: Do these numbers that
22 you kind of threw up of at-risk and pathological, based on
23 research you've had in the past, which is probably limited
24 in going forward, are they holding? Do they tend to be
1 DR. NOWER: I have a whole part of my
2 dissertation that is devoted to different ways in which
3 people have chosen to categorize that in-transition group.
4 And what we don't know is what direction these
5 in-transition gamblers are going.
6 Some researchers look at money wagered, plus
7 number of symptoms. Some look at frequency and/or
8 symptoms and/or -- everybody has a different way of
9 categorizing the people in the middle.
10 We know Point A and Point C. Whether these
11 people are going toward pathology or away from it or in
12 the middle, we don't know. So we just sort of arbitrarily
13 choose something based on what we're looking at.
14 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: Is pathology growing,
15 or is that a relatively stable number?
16 DR. NOWER: It's like a shell game. I think
17 that, you know, you kind of hide the pathology and move it
18 around. Folks that have pathology, it will manifest in
19 some way.
20 That's why in GA, we typically see recovering
21 alcoholics, we see recovering sex addicts, and then they
22 just sort of switch addictions among the comorbid
24 But whenever you have increased accessibility,
25 you're going to have a higher prevalence.
1 Rachelle Bolver (phonetic sp.) did a prevalence
2 study in '96 that showed that places that have had
3 legalized gambling for a long time have a higher
4 prevalence rate.
5 Now, if that's because of visitors or what, we
6 don't know.
7 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: And that kind of led
8 me to my last question was, if you're in a state like
9 Missouri and you go from, you know, five gambling places,
10 if you will, to twenty, is that pathological group
11 numberwise or percentagewise going to grow, or are they
12 just going to do it more, if my question makes sense?
13 DR. NOWER: Typically -- and because this is
14 such a new phenomena, they only have places like the East
15 Coast and Las Vegas and that to look at. The privilege
16 rate is about 2 percent higher.
17 But why that is, we don't know.
18 Among the elderly population, the supposition
19 is that these folks probably gamble pathological on bingo,
20 but the most they could lose would be 100 or $200.
21 Now they go and they are on the slot machines,
22 and they're losing huge amounts of money. Their pathology
23 has been stable, but the devastation is greater.
24 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: Thank you.
25 COMMISSIONER SMITH: A question: It seemed to
1 me that Missouri has been a leader in trying to do
2 something about the problem gambler and has a good
3 program, but it concerns me how few people are taking
4 advantage of it.
5 What do we need to do to reach more people?
6 DR. NOWER: Well, I have been, like I
7 mentioned, a big -- fairly vocal about the fact that if
8 we're going to train 120 compulsive counselors, we need to
9 make sure that all of those folks have access to State
10 funds and are able to treat the gamblers.
11 And up until now, and currently, the only
12 people who can get the funds are the State agencies. So
13 there is all of these competent counselors who see
14 gamblers who have to either go through those gamblers EAPs
15 or treat them on a sliding scale.
16 I think increasing the overall amount of
17 providers and -- the training is excellent. You know, I
18 don't have any qualms with the training. They do really
19 fine training here. They just need to make sure that they
20 recruit the best counselors, they give State contracts to
21 those counselors and there is some marketing, you know, so
22 that we cast the broadest net for the most people.
23 COMMISSIONER SMITH: If I were a problem
24 gambler, I really wouldn't know where to go right now
25 unless I happened to hear about our hotline or something.
1 I just wondered how we reach these people.
2 Unless my family real thinks I'm so bad they're
3 going to make me do something. How do you catch the
4 people before they get so bad?
5 DR. NOWER: Well, typically, the family is the
6 big proponent. But, like, what happens a lot of times is,
7 if I get people refer -- you know, call me and say, I
8 don't -- I don't have any money, I want treatment, my
9 choices are either to refer to somebody who is a State
10 provider and -- or to treat them for free or for a little
11 money, and -- or refer to someone I know who charges --
12 you know, who has to charge and doesn't have a State
13 contract. And that's difficult.
14 I think once that changes, you're going to see
15 a big change in how many people are served.
16 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: So what you're saying is
17 that we've lost all of this money and we're depressed, and
18 so on and so forth, and we don't want to spend any to get
20 DR. NOWER: Well, you know, at some point -- I
21 think there is -- accountability is one of the first
22 things toward recovery, is taking personal responsibility.
23 But the fact is, there are some people who just
24 don't have any money. And so -- their families don't have
25 any money.
1 And so initially somewhere they've got to get
2 some treatment. And if the choice is I won't go or I get
3 free treatment, I would rather see the free treatment at
4 least initially.
5 COMMISSIONER SMITH: How are they identifying
6 these people that will get the State money to treat?
7 DR. NOWER: It was given to people with
8 existing Department of Mental Health contracts, or ADA
9 substance abuse. That's how it was initially started.
10 So people who had those contracts got the
11 gambling contracts. Now that is about to change.
12 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Who is handling that?
13 DR. NOWER: Dewey Price is the one that has
14 worked on the RFP. And, really, it's he's been a huge
15 proponent. He's under Michael Couty's division.
16 And Dewey is the head of the gambling unit, and
17 he's been a great advocate -- supportive of counselors and
18 extremely proactive about getting the best people.
19 COMMISSIONER SMITH: How many are we treating
20 here? What was that figure?
21 MR. MULLALLY: Melissa, I believe the last was
22 somewhere around 100. Right?
23 MS. STEVENS: I believe so.
24 COMMISSIONER SMITH: So if we have 100 people
25 we're treating, how many people are getting money as
2 DR. NOWER: Well, I got those figures
3 together last year --
4 MR. MULLALLY: It's a couple dozen is all
5 that -- the -- of course, it's agency again.
6 DR. NOWER: That's the other problem.
7 MR. MULLALLY: It's hard to judge. This is an
8 issue that we're working on through the alliance. I
9 stepped down yesterday as President of the Missouri
10 Alliance to curve problem gambling, and we elected a new
11 one, who happens to be Dewey Price with Missouri
12 Department of Mental Health.
13 And this was a topic of some discussion at the
14 meeting yesterday. So I'm hoping that, as Lia suggested,
15 that we're moving towards a model where individual
16 counselors are the ones who are able to obtain contracts
17 and the services become more readily available and easier
18 to access.
19 It's something that is very high on the agenda
20 for the Alliance.
21 COMMISSIONER SMITH: I asked a psychiatrist in
22 Columbia and a psychologist, who are these people, where
23 do you go, and they don't know. So how does the word get
25 MR. MULLALLY: Well, the good news is that --
1 that the accessibility to the various programs and
2 services that we offer has risen dramatically because of
3 the efforts over the past two years of the Alliance.
4 Melissa issued a report, and we'll be happy to
5 get a copy of it yesterday, that shows the increase in
6 access to the hotline numbers, increase in numbers to the
7 voluntary exclusion program, increase in access to a lot
8 of different services that we offer because of the
9 outreach efforts that we have engaged in.
10 To the extent that because of the funds that
11 are being made available because of Senate Bill 902 that
12 was passed last year, that we can increase those outreach
13 efforts and start to do more things like -- you know, the
14 bottom line is, we need to get more paid advertising out
16 It has to be a motto where we spend more money
17 on outreach on the front end, so we can spend more money
18 on treatment on the back end. It's exactly what you said.
19 We have to get people more aware of where to
20 go, and then we can back off maybe some of the awareness
21 money and put it into treatment.
22 And it's just convincing the folks that give us
23 the money that that is an acceptable model, and I think
24 we're getting close to being there.
25 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: So it's improving.
1 I mean, I consider myself hyper-aware, and
2 billboard, I've heard it on radio, I know it's posted in
3 casinos. But I think it's just because I'm hyper-aware of
4 what I do.
5 But if you're sitting there depressed and
6 despondent and going, I really have got a problem, I think
7 both of you bring a good point, that somehow that
8 awareness has to be a little more obvious, or something,
9 where somebody can reach out.
10 MR. MULLALLY: And it comes down to a money
11 thing. I mean, we looked at a proposal yesterday from the
12 Missouri Net Sports Broadcasting Network, to do -- to do
13 billboards at Tiger basketball.
14 Because that is a demographic that fits our --
15 the at-risk population. Sporting public is a very good
16 demographic for us as far as building awareness.
17 And doing the billboard things at the game, in
18 the program, being on the radio during the Tiger broadcast
19 for both football and basketball, and we're all incredibly
20 excited about it. It's a great package for us. The
21 dollar figure is a little high.
22 So we're going to have to figure out how to
23 make this work and choose our spots appropriately.
24 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: You know, a question,
25 because, obviously, I don't go there. But if we walk into
1 a casino, is there something -- if you get your card, is
2 there a ticket, is there anything that has printed on it
3 that you might walk away with, when you get out of there,
4 that you might reach in a coat pocket and later says, here
5 is the hotline?
6 MR. MULLALLY: At the casino?
7 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: Uh-huh.
8 MR. MULLALLY: Oh, yeah. It's on -- it's on
9 all of the admission cards that you need to get in.
10 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: Okay.
11 MR. MULLALLY: It's posted by the ATM, it's
12 posted at ticketing, at the turnstiles and the cage.
13 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: So it's actually on a
14 document that you might take away, reach in your pocket
15 the next morning?
16 MR. MULLALLY: Yes. Yeah.
17 And, of course, we require our voluntary
18 exclusion brochure to be posted at ticketing and the cage,
19 and that has not only the hotline number but our number,
20 and details about how they can get in that program.
21 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: And that is for
22 somebody that calls and says, not only do I have a
23 problem, but I'm broke, I don't have a way of paying for
25 MR. MULLALLY: Yes. We work very -- the
1 Alliance works very closely, although I must say, I wish
2 Consumer Credit Counseling would step our way a little
4 We have gone to the nth mile to try to reach
5 out to Consumer Credit Counseling, and they do some things
6 on their own. They have not joined the Alliance and have
7 not been as aggressive as I would hope.
8 So if the media is out there and can encourage
9 Consumer Credit Counseling to be more involved, I would
10 certainly appreciate that.
11 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Is that a State-financed
13 MR. MULLALLY: No. I think they're
14 private --
15 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: They're private.
16 MR. MULLALLY: -- not-for-profit.
17 But we always send -- Melissa is in pretty
18 constant communication, at least from our end, on the
19 outgoing end, with Consumer Credit Counseling.
20 Whenever we send information out, we always try
21 to make them aware. We have invited them to join the
22 Alliance. We're trying to get them more involved.
23 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Thank you very much.
24 Do you have any more questions?
25 I appreciate it. Thank you.
1 MR. MULLALLY: I'd just like to again thank
2 Lia. She, as I said, is a great resource for us.
3 I think just from her presentation, you can
4 gather not only is she incredibly intelligent, but she has
5 a passion and energy for this issue that is a joy to deal
7 And one of the other things I take away from
8 her presentation and others that I've seen like it, is you
9 can usually gather what somebody's take on these things
10 are is if the first thing they say when they come away
11 with this, see, I told you casinos were bad.
12 Because I think if you really look at the data
13 that she presents, this is a much -- does -- do problem
14 gamblers increase with the advent of casinos? Absolutely.
15 But I think that you're looking carefully at
16 the data and if what your interest is, is really helping
17 problem gamblers, you see that it is a much broader
18 problem than this.
19 And we need more people that -- whose desire is
20 to help the problem gambler without all of these other
21 fringe issues.
22 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: And it's not just
23 problem gambling. I mean, there is overeating, there is
24 sexual addictions. There are so many addictions. And as
25 you said, at some point, people have to be accountable.
1 And hopefully for the rest of us that are
2 involved potentially in those industries where it's a
3 little higher, you provide access and help.
4 But, you know, gambling, I think as you pointed
5 out, is one behavior for certain people. They're going to
6 go to another addiction, to another one. It's -- it's
7 much more complicated. It's not that simple.
8 DR. NOWER: If I can just add one thing.
9 I think one thing that is really important from
10 looking at the pathways, is that -- and this is -- has
11 implications for treatment.
12 It's, like, I don't treat people with eating
13 disorders because that is a really particular subspecialty
14 and people can die. So I refer those people to a person
15 who specializes.
16 Because our industry is so new in treatment,
17 there are certain people who have the biological education
18 to really treat these pathway three folks that have all of
19 this stuff going on.
20 But a person who doesn't have that education,
21 who may be a certified compulsive gambling counselor, they
22 may be great, but they just don't have all of the tools.
23 And ultimately, hopefully, we'll get to where
24 we have a network where people don't fall through the
25 cracks because it doesn't get addressed at Point A and
1 then they develop four more addictions, or we address the
2 gambling but not the other addictions and then they
3 relapse. Those things are all -- it's like a net.
4 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: And, I guess, my
5 point was, is that, but in addition to that, that it's
6 just not that easy.
7 Somebody who overeats, you can't close all of
8 the grocery stores and restaurants. You have to teach
9 them to cope with that.
10 You know, somebody has other addictions;
11 drinking, you can't close liquor stores and bars.
12 At some point, you know, there has to be a
13 coping mechanism, an accountability mechanism, and then
14 avenues to which we can help people help themselves.
15 DR. NOWER: Right. Thank you.
16 MR. MULLALLY: Chairman, the next item on the
17 agenda is a presentation by Ken Peck.
18 Patricia Churchill and I had the pleasure of
19 visiting Kimmswick last week, and were able to take a nice
20 tour of the town and meet a lot of the business owners and
21 the residents and some of the people in the area of the
22 proposed casino.
23 And I can tell you they are very passionate
24 about their beliefs and sincere about what they feel. And
25 I think it just highlights the difficulty that we all face
1 in dealing with this issue and balancing their concerns
2 versus the -- the policing concern of the other 400,000
3 residents of Jefferson County and the people of the state
4 as a whole.
5 It's why we are often referred to as an
6 obscure, noncontroversial State agency, I guess.
8 MR. PECK: Well, as I said, I appreciate your
9 letting me sit before you one more time.
10 COMMISSIONER SMITH: I kind of feel like you're
11 a member of the Commission.
12 MR. PECK: You know, that's getting to be kind
13 of a strange feeling. I've been getting to feel
14 comfortable coming here.
15 But I also want to thank Kevin Mullally and
16 Patricia Churchill for taking the time to visit our little
17 village last week.
18 And, of course, I want you to know -- and we
19 want to you know -- that our invitation to your -- to you
20 to visit our town still -- still stands. And I've brought
21 some maps for you to find your way to where we are.
22 Mayor Selsor has asked me to apologize
23 to you for his not being able to be here today.
24 He has asked me, though, to deliver a letter which I will
25 leave to you to read, okay, in the interest of brevity.
1 But basically it elaborates on some conflicting
2 zoning circumstances that probably -- that could well have
3 led to our frequent presence here before you. So I ask
4 you to read this. I think you'll find it interesting.
5 And, you know, I know that the Commission
6 really doesn't have, you know, authority to invoke -- I
7 mean, the main procedures, and you probably don't want to
8 hear it from anybody.
9 But I'm just wondering, you know, it occurs to
10 me that you people are the ones who license casinos, and I
11 think that it is a matter of consideration for you that
12 the process of imminent domain could be used to acquire
13 private property.
14 Actually, with this my comments are pretty much
15 finished, with the exception of the fact that since the
16 imminent domain thing has veered its ugly head, we have
17 here today Larry Schlecht, whose property could stand to
18 be lost by imminent domain, and he wants to make a brief
19 statement to you.
20 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: That's fine.
21 MR. PECK: Do you want him to come forward?
22 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Sure do.
23 MR. SCHLECHT: Briefly, I have a letter here.
24 I'd like to give copies, if I may, for each one of you,
25 for the record, or whatever.
1 I'll just make this real brief, and I have a
2 real brief comment, if you don't mind, when we finish.
3 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Go right ahead.
4 MR. SCHLECHT: Okay. Ladies and gentlemen of
5 the Gaming Commission, my name is Larry Schlecht. And I
6 am being forced to negotiate with Isle of Capri to sell
7 all of my land for an 80-foot-wide road.
8 I have been told that unless I negotiate a sale
9 of my land to Isle of Capri, Jefferson County might
10 condemn my land for Isle of Capri's profit -- benefit.
11 I'm sorry.
12 The property has a six-acre lake, numerous
13 springs of historical, cultural and archeological
15 If the Isle of Capri acquires my land, it would
16 be used for a private drive to serve only the proposed
18 This past July the Commission announced its
19 decision to investigate Isle of Capri's application for a
20 casino near Kimmswick.
21 We heard indirectly that the Commission would
22 likely conclude its investigation in 30 days.
23 During the September meeting, almost four
24 months ago, experts for the City of Kimmswick presented
25 specific information, demonstrating that Isle of Capri has
1 misled the Commission: the MoDOT connection with
2 Highway 61/67, the railroad crossing, the local permit,
3 which all -- which had expired -- or some of the items
4 that have not been resolved by Isle of Capri as of the
5 September meeting.
6 Myself, as a landowner, have not been -- have
7 not been approached with an offer by -- for my property.
8 How can a proposed casino be ready to start
10 I am disabled. My wife is very sick, actually.
11 She was from -- she has cancer and other things, medical
13 Please address these charges and say no to Isle
14 of Capri, so we can go on with our lives and build our
15 retirement home while we still can.
16 That's my statement I'd like to read. But I
17 have one brief thing that I would like to add to that, if
18 you don't mind.
19 In the proceedings here, the gentleman who
20 represented Isle of Capri made a statement that the one
21 homeowner or landowner was still out, you know, hadn't
22 negotiated or hasn't resolved with them yet.
23 And I guess I take issue with that, because my
24 understanding is the City of Kimmswick owns some ground
25 where the road is going to go also.
1 As of the last couple of days, they haven't
2 even been approached yet with an offer.
3 So they cannot put a road through my ground
4 unless they go through the City's property.
5 And I find it interesting, why wasn't that
6 brought to the people's attention, just the one landowner,
7 when there was more than that?
8 There are other issues that I take issue with,
9 but, I think, because of my attorney, I haven't discussed
10 it. I'd rather not discuss too much about it, but I
11 wanted to, you know, bring that to your attention.
12 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Well, I think, probably, we
13 will find out before this is over with. Don't you?
14 MR. SCHLECHT: I'd like to.
15 It seems interesting that they're ready to go
16 and they haven't even talked to the City about the ground
17 which was donated to them for a private park for the
18 citizens of the area, which could be taken away for one
19 company to make money.
20 I thank you very much.
21 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Thank you, sir.
22 COMMISSIONER SMITH: A couple of questions, if
23 I could.
24 MR. SCHLECHT: I may or may not answer them,
25 because, like I say, I was --
1 COMMISSIONER SMITH: I know what is supposed to
2 go on in a lawsuit.
3 MR. SCHLECHT: -- supposed to read that --
4 COMMISSIONER SMITH: I used to try a lot of
5 condemnation cases, so be careful what you tell me.
6 But I was under the impression that this would
7 not just be a private drive; it would be available for
8 public use.
9 Is this a limited-access drive?
10 MR. SCHLECHT: From the information that I
11 received from, by looking at some maps and so forth, by a
12 representative of Isle of Capri, the road is going to go
13 strictly from Highway 61/67, directly to the Isle of
15 And there will be one intersection in there
16 with a (inaudible) road crossing it. I believe that would
17 be necessary for fire, police protection. They couldn't
18 stop a road or do anything else, because it has to have
19 access for the public utility.
20 And that would be the only people that actually
21 have a road or touching it.
22 No business or residence have a driveway to
23 this road.
24 COMMISSIONER SMITH: So there will be access to
25 a public road that goes into this new roadway or driveway?
1 MR. SCHLECHT: It will cross somehow. I don't
2 have the particulars. But it has to cross some way. They
3 can't close a public road off, I would think.
4 COMMISSIONER SMITH: That's what I -- I would
5 have thought that there was some road connections in
7 MR. SCHLECHT: Just the one existing road,
8 which has minimal traffic, by the way.
9 COMMISSIONER SMITH: I would like to know more
10 about the springs that you've talked about, and lakes.
11 How much of that land -- how many of them are
12 they taking and exactly what is happening?
13 MR. SCHLECHT: I was informed that they want
14 all of that.
15 COMMISSIONER SMITH: They want all of your
17 MR. SCHLECHT: Yes, sir.
18 I have 25.43 acres. I donated some to
19 Kimmswick for a walkway. Some of the springs are on the
20 City's property. It goes around the Lake. There is a lot
21 of -- it's a nice place for people to walk. It hasn't
22 been developed yet.
23 COMMISSIONER SMITH: So they would not take the
24 land that -- the springs that the City owns?
25 MR. SCHLECHT: Well, if the road goes through
1 where I've been somewhat informed it was going to go --
2 see. I really don't know specifically if it's going to go
3 exactly where it's going to go. But indications are that
4 it's going to go right through the spring area, yes.
5 But that's up to them, Isle of Capri and the
6 county, to find out the specific location. But as of
7 right now, some of the springs are going to be involved in
8 the road, yes.
9 No matter where they put the road through
10 there, some of the City's property will be involved.
11 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Are those springs on the
12 north side of your lake?
13 MR. SCHLECHT: Yes, sir.
14 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Is that generally where they
16 MR. SCHLECHT: They're on somewhat of a
17 diagonal line.
18 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: But generally north. Right?
19 MR. SCHLECHT: Yes, sir.
20 And there has been a lot of -- I don't have it
21 with me, but there has been a lot of archeological study
22 down there over the years.
23 Recently Dr. Bruce McMillin -- he's from
24 Illinois, an archeologist -- who has some samples of soil.
25 He's studying them right now.
1 There are numerous documentations down there.
2 The museum has one. In 1896 there is an article about all
3 of the Indian grave sites which are on that location.
4 There has been a man named Jones who put down
5 the first enterprise, if I read it correctly. It was in
6 the 1770s, was down there. He saw what was coming out of
7 the springs.
8 There is a Harold Sithe (phonetic sp.), which
9 is an archeological site similar to Mastadon Park, which
10 is very close, and some people believe it's a continuation
11 of the site.
12 If fact, we're very close to Mastadon Park, and
13 there were some photos discovered which had a lot of
14 interest in that field years ago. So there is a lot of
15 history down there.
16 At one time this was part of Montesanto Springs
17 (phonetic sp.), a resort, where people came out with
18 riverboats and so forth down there, and they came down to
19 these springs.
20 There has been quite a bit of history to it.
21 That's briefly for layman's terms.
22 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Did you say you have a
24 MR. SCHLECHT: Yes, sir, I do.
25 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Has he met with the Isle
1 of Capri to determine the location of the road?
2 MR. SCHLECHT: At this time my attorney wrote
3 Isle of Capri some time ago with some questions and
4 concerns. And my knowledge, as of the last day or two,
5 she hasn't received an answer yet. This has been about a
6 month or so ago.
7 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Do you know, the 25 acres,
8 will this cut through your property or on the edge of it?
9 MR. SCHLECHT: Well, if they are taking all of
10 this, I don't know. I could speculate, but I don't think
11 that would be proper.
12 COMMISSIONER SMITH: You haven't been told?
13 MR. SCHLECHT: I saw a map where they're --
14 where they're proposing to do it. But then again, that is
15 all proposals. And once they get the ground, they can
16 move it wherever they want to, and --
17 COMMISSIONER SMITH: (Inaudible.)
18 MR. SCHLECHT: -- I would be misleading you.
19 COMMISSIONER SMITH: What did they propose?
20 MR. SCHLECHT: Right where the springs are is
21 where they're proposing to put the road.
22 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Leave you the land north
23 and south of it?
24 MR. SCHLECHT: No, sir. They're taking all of
1 I have 25.43 acres, and I donated some to
2 Kimmswick, so I don't have quite that much anymore. But
3 they're going to take all of it.
4 COMMISSIONER SMITH: They can't take it without
5 just compensation. At some point --
6 MR. SCHLECHT: Well, that is something I would
7 very much like to discuss with you, but I don't think I
9 COMMISSIONER SMITH: I mean --
10 MR. SCHLECHT: Because, quite frankly, the
11 proposal -- when they give me the appraisal, I read
12 through it, and I'm not allowed to say too much about it,
13 but I -- because there is a disclaimer in there,
15 And I showed it to -- not that, but I showed
16 the price to real estate people, because I'm not in that
17 field, and they laughed.
18 COMMISSIONER SMITH: You understand that you
19 will have a commission appointed by a court if it's
20 condemned --
21 MR. SCHLECHT: Yes, sir.
22 COMMISSIONER SMITH: -- and appraise it, and
23 then you can also ask for a jury determination on that?
24 MR. SCHLECHT: Yes, I understand. The county
25 seat of Hillsboro will appoint the three people. But the
1 question is, is Hillsboro -- they have a monetary interest
2 in this.
3 COMMISSIONER SMITH: I see. They're supporting
4 it then?
5 MR. SCHLECHT: Well, Hillsboro being the
6 city county seat, I guess you could say, whoever appoints
7 them -- I'm not for sure -- has a contract with Isle of
9 So they're both going to make money at it. So
10 it's kind of interesting to me, and an opinion, it seems
11 like it's a conflict of interest.
12 But that's -- I'm not the lawyer. I'm just
13 giving you my opinion.
14 COMMISSIONER SMITH: You have -- you do
15 understand you do have some protection as far as getting
16 value; you don't have to accept what's offered to you?
17 MR. SCHLECHT: Well, I couldn't accept the
18 first offer because -- that they gave me to sign. I'd go
19 to jail if I signed it. That's my opinion.
20 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Have they come on the --
21 have you allowed them to come on your property to at least
22 survey the possible location?
23 MR. SCHLECHT: No, sir. I've stated I do not
24 want them, because I believe that is my right.
25 COMMISSIONER SMITH: I think at some point they
1 can. If the road is being condemned, they have that
3 MR. SCHLECHT: I'm not -- I'm not an attorney.
4 I couldn't tell you. I just believe at this point, until
5 we at least negotiate -- which we're in the process of
6 trying to do. Until we negotiate, I don't -- I won't
7 comment because I don't know.
8 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Well, I would hope that
9 your lawyer could work with them to protect you on this.
10 MR. SCHLECHT: I hope so too. Because it just
11 doesn't seem proper, some of the things that are
12 happening, but that is my opinion.
13 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Thanks for coming.
14 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Thank you, sir.
15 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: I just have a comment
16 in general, maybe just coming from me, speaking
18 I know this has been very contentious on both
19 sides, and maybe it appears at times that we're not
20 listening, and we are. But there are two sides, and there
21 is lots of issues to address.
22 And if we ever gave the impression that an
23 answer would come in a month, I don't remember how that
24 came across, and maybe it was something we miscommunicated
25 on our part.
1 I could assure you that would not be the case.
2 Investigations of this nature just don't happen that
3 quickly. And, also, there are things on both sides.
4 If anybody has been involved in putting up a
5 project of this nature -- and I'm not just saying casino,
6 but buildings -- all of the i's aren't dotted and all of
7 the t's aren't crossed at that time. They're worked
9 But both sides, I think, you know, I feel at
10 least with myself and everybody on here, are very much
11 being listened to.
12 And now that we've got some things behind us
13 that kind of jumped ahead, as you're all aware at the end
14 of last year, I know we can devote a lot of time to this,
15 and hopefully this will work out to everyone's best
16 interest, maybe not 100 percent but best interest.
17 And that's just my thought.
18 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: I appreciate that.
19 Thank you, Lynne.
20 MR. MULLALLY: Well said.
21 Mr. Chairman, the final item on the agenda is a
22 market report from the Commission's financial analyst, Jim
24 MR. OBERKIRSCH: Good morning, Chairman and
25 Commissioners, for another ten seconds.
1 This is a brief report. I'm only going to
2 report on two properties that are currently -- either have
3 completed upgrades or are in the process of completing
5 And you might have noticed they've posted weak
6 results in the near term, so I thought I'd address them.
7 First of all, the President recently relocated
8 to their new mooring site just north of their existing
9 mooring site. And they opened for business on
10 December 14th.
11 The move actually culminated a series of
12 upgrades that I think we should address: new slot
13 product, 175 brand new slot machines, another 800
14 previously owned slot machines that had bill validator
15 technology, which will allow them to get the full benefit
16 of the recent vend-to-meter legislation.
17 They've also implemented a player -- electric
18 player tracking system, which will allow them to enforce
19 the loss limit electronically, and it's a customer
20 convenience point as well.
21 Early signs of showing that they're -- that
22 they're showing improved results.
23 Over the last six months our AGR was down year
24 over year by about 10 percent.
25 They came out of their open boarding
1 anniversary very flat, and then a few other things
2 precipitated to the results.
3 But early indications are -- although the
4 numbers have not stabilized -- that trends are positive,
5 and they're currently solidly in the double-digit year-
6 over-year plus range.
7 And we will just continue to monitor the
8 situation to see what the prospects are.
9 But this is -- this is their make or break
10 year. They've really done everything they could without
11 expending a lot money to make the President as competitive
12 as possible.
13 Now they'll try various marketing strategies to
14 see how everything works together, but everything is in
15 place. And we're going to -- over the next couple of
16 quarters we're going to see exactly what the prospects for
17 that location are going farther.
18 The second -- the second project which you
19 might have noticed --
20 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: Can I just stop
21 you --
22 MR. OBERKIRSCH: Sure.
23 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: -- and then you can
24 go back to that, because I know there has been some items
25 in the press about thoughts on how that project is going
1 to grow as a result of this move.
2 And I'd love it to grow that much. That would
3 truly be an ultimate success story. But just given my
4 background, I have my doubts. And I'm just curious, given
5 what they have said, do you see a high probability of them
6 achieving that level of growth?
7 MR. OBERKIRSCH: It's very difficult to say.
8 A few of the things with regard to the new site
9 didn't work out. They didn't -- they didn't get control
10 of the parking like they wanted to. They're still working
11 towards that.
12 The casino does have a better feel to it. When
13 you embark on the boat now, it's actually like you've
14 reached a destination as opposed to walking a gangplank to
15 a riverboat.
16 And the new general manager says there is a new
17 corporate culture with respect to customer service,
18 customer friendliness that he has implemented.
19 And everybody is really positive, and we're
20 going to -- and there is no more tricks in the bag, so
21 we're going to know shortly just what is going to happen
23 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: And I didn't mean to
24 put you on the spot, because I truly hope that they do
25 that. I just know -- you and I, I think, would agree that
1 the next two or three quarters are going to be extremely
3 MR. OBERKIRSCH: Right.
4 And all of the changes should compound each
5 other with regard to the new slot product and the player
6 tracking technology and such. So I'll defer to next
8 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: You and me both.
9 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Is the weather a problem,
10 really, to make an analysis now? They hit this bad
11 weather at the time they opened.
12 MR. OBERKIRSCH: We've had a few weeks in
13 January to look at pretty clean year-over-year results.
14 But you're right. Right off the bat, three
15 days after they move to the new site, the bad weather hit.
16 They had some momentum and then they lost it all. And
17 then the results were clouded by the bad weather.
18 But trends are favorable and we're seeing
19 double-digit growth.
20 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: There is a lot of
21 activity with events in downtown St. Louis, which
22 hopefully will help.
23 MR. OBERKIRSCH: True enough. True enough.
24 That's the one aspect that the Admiral has on some of the
25 other boats.
1 The other property that has been posting weak
2 results is the Isle of Capri in Kansas City.
3 And just to give you a little perspective
4 there, things are getting back on track; but at the height
5 of the construction, they were at 50 percent slot
6 capacity. They were down to 542 slot machines, and
7 against their goal of about 1,100. That was in the
8 beginning of the December.
9 By Christmas they only had 689 slot machines
10 operational, which is, I think, a little bit behind what
11 they wanted to have when the holidays hit.
12 By New Year's they were up to 949, so they were
13 pretty much in full spring. Again, the goal is 1,100.
14 As Tom Campbell mentioned, there is still some
15 finishing touches on the casino floor, and then the
16 exterior work. And they really haven't announced to the
17 public that the renovation is complete, and they haven't
18 had their grand opening, which they anticipate doing in
19 the next couple of months. And at that point in time, I
20 think, we'll be able to really take a better look at the
22 But the up side is that year-over-year results
23 are at about break-even with growth. So they've come out
24 of that really large deficit.
25 For instance, the AGR was down 31 percent for
1 the most recent quarter, which is, you know, a startling
3 But in light of the fact that the casino floor
4 was at 50 percent, it just gives you a little more
5 perspective into those numbers.
6 And that's really all I had for a market
8 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Thank you.
9 MR. MULLALLY: Mr. Chairman, that concludes the
10 staff's agenda -- or staff's proposed agenda.
11 Before you entertain any other business or a
12 motion for closed session, I would like to publicly thank
13 the staff for all of their hard work since Mel Fisher's
15 When Mel retired, we not only lost the charter
16 member of the staff, but also somebody who did an
17 incredible amount of work.
18 And as acting director and continuing my role
19 as deputy director for legal legislation, it's been a
20 tough deal. But the staff has really stepped up, and even
21 though Patricia has been short-staffed in legal and Steve
22 Johnson gets a baptism of fire and was short-staffed in
23 enforcement, everybody has really stepped up and brought
24 this thing together.
25 And I think the meeting was relatively smooth
1 today, and in large part to all of their efforts.
2 I really want to acknowledge them publicly and
3 thank them for their effort.
4 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Thank you, Kevin. Well said
5 and well deserved.
6 It seems as though my volunteer job turned into
7 about a half-time job since Mr. Fisher left. I'm going to
8 take him to task one of these days over that.
9 I don't mind. But the workload increased for
10 me. I didn't used to have any, and/or very little.
11 And I think once we get everybody in-house and
12 get some people on board that we need, hopefully, that
13 personally I'm going to kick back just a bit.
14 Anyway --
15 COMMISSIONER SMITH: We appreciate all of your
16 extra efforts too.
17 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Sarcasm gets you everywhere.
18 COMMISSIONER SMITH: We really do.
19 You have to meet with the press.
20 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: Well, anyway, it will come
21 out in the wash and we're going to be better for it as a
23 And, again, we do appreciate the staff. Even
24 you, Steve, really do.
25 I know your name. I'm just kidding you. We
1 know that. We appreciate it.
2 And pass it on to your people.
3 I know Kevin is overloaded, not to say that the
4 rest of you aren't, because when that vacancy is at the
5 top, everything piles up on all of the rest of them. I'm
6 well aware of how that works. I'm just glad I'm not down
8 So, anyway, keep it up. We're going to try to
9 resolve some things for you in the very near, near future,
10 and I think it's going to work well.
11 Anybody have any comments they want to make?
12 If not, I'm going to ask for a motion for a
13 closed session. And we will return for an open session,
14 but the only reason we're coming back is so we can legally
15 close the meeting. So we'll have no business at our open
16 session after the closed.
17 The closed is going to be of some duration. We
18 have a few internal problems, if you will, and primarily
19 the Commission is going to address some of the vacancies
20 that we've got and so on and so forth. So we may be in a
21 fight in there before it's over with. Nevertheless, we're
22 going to try to resolve some situations.
23 Do we have a motion?
24 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Mr. Chairman, I do have a
1 I would like to move to close this meeting to
2 receive, discuss and consider the following matters:
3 Personnel matters under 610.021(3) and (4) RSMo,
4 investigatory, proprietary and application records,
5 information and summaries under 610.021(14) and 313.847.1
6 RSMo, and closed minutes or other closed records under
7 610.021(14) and 313.847.1 RSMo.
8 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: I have a motion.
9 Do we have a second, please?
10 COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN: Second.
11 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: We have a second.
12 All in favor?
13 (Unanimous ayes.)
14 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: All opposed?
15 (No response.)
16 CHAIRMAN ULLERY: So be it.
17 (Hearing adjourned.)
STATE OF MISSOURI)
3 ) ss.
COUNTY OF COLE )
6 I, Patricia A. Stewart, Notary Public within
and for the State of Missouri, do hereby certify that I
7 was personally present at the proceedings had in the
above-entitled cause at the time and place set forth in
8 the caption sheet hereof; that I then and there took down
in Stenotype the proceedings had and produced with
9 computer-aided transcription and that the foregoing is a
full, true and correct transcript of such Stenotype notes
10 so made at such time and place.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand
12 and seal on this 7th day of February, 2001.
My commission expires October 4, 2001.
17 Notary Public - State of Missouri
(Commissioned in Cole County.)