0001

 1  

 2             BEFORE THE MISSOURI GAMING COMMISSION

                         STATE OF MISSOURI 

 3          

 4  

 5  

 6                            Meeting

                    Wednesday, January 24, 2001

 7                        3417 Knipp Drive

                      Jefferson City, Missouri

 8  

 9  

10  

11   

     COMMISSIONERS PRESENT:   

12  

                L. G. Ullery, Chairman

13              Robert Smith, Vice Chairman

                Lynne R. Nikolaisen, Secretary

14              Dr. Muriel W. Battle

15  

16  

17  

18  

19  

20  

21      

     REPORTED BY: 

22   Patricia A. Stewart, CSR, CCR, RPR, RMR

     ASSOCIATED COURT REPORTERS

23   714 West High Street

     P. O. Box 1308

24   Jefferson City, Missouri 65101

     (573) 636-7551

25  

0002

 1   

                             I N D E X

 2  

     Call to Order

 3  

     Consideration of Approval of Minutes:        4

 4  

         October 10, 2000

 5       October 25, 2000

         November 29, 2000

 6  

 7   Consideration of Hearing Officer

     Recommendations:                 

 8   

     Resolution No. 01-001                        6

 9     Thomas J. Carullo                        

10  

     Consideration of Licensure of

11   Certain Level I/Key Applicants: 

12   Resolution No. 01-002                       29

13  

     Consideration of Licensure of

14   Certain Suppliers: 

15   Resolution No. 01-003                       34

       Osborne Coinage Company                       

16  

     Resolution No. 01-004                       37

17     United States Playing Card Company            

18  

     Consideration of Relicensure of a

19   Certain Supplier:                           32

20   Resolution No. 01-005                      

       Acres Gaming Incorporated                      

21  

     Resolution No. 01-006

22     The Bud Jones Company                         

23   Resolution No. 01-007

       Mikohn Gaming Corporation                     

24  

     Resolution No. 01-009

25     George C. Matteson Company, Inc. 

       d/b/a GEMACO                                  

0003

 1  

 2                       I N D E X (CONT'D)

 3   Consideration of Relicensure of a

     Certain Supplier (Cont'd): 

 4  

     Resolution of No. 01-009

 5     Sigma Game, Inc.                          

 6   Resolution No. 01-010

       Atronic Casino Technology, L.L.C.             

 7  

 8   Consideration of Settlement Agreements: 

 9   Resolution No. 01-001-B                     42

       Sikeston Eagle Lodge #3319               

10  

11   Consideration of Proposed Rulemaking: 

12     11 CSR 45-17.015 - Access to Excursion    44

       Gambling Boat for Purposes of

13     Employment                               

14     11 CSR 45-31.005 - Procedures for         49

       Disciplinary Actions and Hearings             

15  

     Update on Status of Isle of Capri -         51

16   Boonville/Kansas City

17   Update on Status of Mark Twain Casino -     61

     LaGrange                                   

18  

     Problem Gambling Education Presentation     77

19   Lia Nower, Ph.D. 

20   Presentation by Ken Peck                   111

21   Market Report                              125

22   Closed Session

23   Adjournment

24  

25  

0004

 1                     P R O C E E D I N G S   

 2              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  We've come to order just a

 3   few minutes ago.  We need to get the meeting started.

 4   We'll have another commissioner here shortly, but in the

 5   meantime, we'll continue on. 

 6              Will you call the roll for us, Angie, please. 

 7              MS. FRANKS:  Chairman Ullery? 

 8              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Present. 

 9              MS. FRANKS:  Commissioner Smith? 

10              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  Present. 

11              MS. FRANKS:  Commissioner Nikolaisen? 

12              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  Present. 

13              MS. FRANKS:  Commissioner Battle? 

14              (No response.)

15              MS. FRANKS:  Commissioner Adorjan? 

16              (No response.)

17              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Make note when Commissioner

18   Battle arrives, that she's present at the time. 

19              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  Mr. Adorjan is hooked in

20   from France? 

21              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Mr. Adorjan is out of the

22   country.  So, no, we're not hooking him in. 

23              MR. MULLALLY:  Mr. Chairman, Commissioners, the

24   first item on the agenda under Tabs A, B and C are minutes

25   from the October 10th, 25th and November 29th meeting. 

0005

 1              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  Those are the ones that we

 2   previously made some corrections to them, and the

 3   corrections were made. 

 4              MR. MULLALLY:  Pardon? 

 5              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  There were -- some

 6   corrections, I think, were made in one of these minutes,

 7   and they came back, I guess, for resubmission. 

 8              MR. MULLALLY:  That's correct. 

 9              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  They look fine to me.

10              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  I move for approval. 

11              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  We have a motion for

12   approval. 

13              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  Is that for all of the

14   minutes? 

15              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  That's for A, B and

16   C, all. 

17              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  I second the motion. 

18              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  We have a motion to second.

19              Angie, will you call the roll, please. 

20              MS. FRANKS:  Chairman Ullery? 

21              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Favor. 

22              MS. FRANKS:  Commissioner Smith? 

23              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  Favor. 

24              MS. FRANKS:  Commissioner Nikolaisen? 

25              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  In favor. 

0006

 1              MS. FRANKS:  By your vote you've adopted the

 2   minutes of the October 10, 2000, October 25th, 2000 and

 3   November 29th, 2000 meeting. 

 4              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Thank you. 

 5              MR. MULLALLY:  Mr. Chairman, under Tab D we

 6   have a consideration of a hearing officer recommendation

 7   in the case of Thomas J. Carullo versus Missouri Gaming

 8   Commission. 

 9              And Hearing Officer Yost will make the

10   presentation. 

11              MR. YOST:  Good morning. 

12              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Good morning. 

13              MR. YOST:  I have DC-00-2053. 

14              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Wait a minute. 

15              MR. YOST:  Resolution. 

16              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  Is that the one involving

17   Mr. Carullo? 

18              MR. YOST:  Yes, it is.  01-001. 

19              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Okay.  Continue. 

20              MR. YOST:  The petitioner is Thomas J. Carullo,

21   and the respondent is the Missouri Gaming Commission.

22              Specifically, on June 5th, 2000 the Missouri

23   Gaming Commission notified Thomas J. Carullo that his

24   Level II occupational license would be disciplined by a

25   56-hour suspension for violation of the loss limit

0007

 1   provisions of the Missouri statutes and regulation. 

 2              On June 19th of 2000 he requested a hearing

 3   through counsel, and on November 22nd of 2000 the hearing

 4   was conducted, presided over by myself. 

 5              The petitioner appeared in person, represented

 6   by counsel, Mr. Robert Shirkey, and the Commission was

 7   represented by Michael Bradley of the Attorney General's

 8   Office. 

 9              The facts:  This was a typical loss limit case.

10   Specifically on March 24th, 2000 an undercover sting

11   operation was conducted by officers from the Missouri

12   Gaming Commission, in which Mr. Carullo allowed the

13   trooper to buy in for more than the $500 loss limit by

14   providing -- asking for $50 in chips, when, I believe, he

15   had $40 remaining on his loss limit card, and Mr. Carullo

16   did allow him to do that. 

17              Factually, this is a case where he is certainly

18   subject to discipline under the laws and regulations of

19   the Commission. 

20              I am recommending that he not be disciplined

21   for the reason that the Missouri Gaming Company, who was

22   his employer, terminated him upon finding out of the

23   proposed discipline in this case, and he has not had a job

24   in gaming since the termination, which is approaching

25   seven months at this point in time. 

0008

 1              So it's my opinion that adding a 56-hour

 2   suspension on his license would -- if he were -- if and

 3   when he decides to reapply for a gaming position would be

 4   excessive since he's already, essentially, served seven

 5   months' worth of involuntary unemployment, so to speak, in

 6   the field of gaming.            

 7              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  Can I just ask a

 8   quick question there? 

 9              MR. YOST:  Certainly. 

10              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  By terminating him,

11   does that absolve them of penalties? 

12              MR. YOST:  Well, I'm glad you asked that,

13   because I was going to address that. 

14              And if you read my proposed discipline, you'll

15   notice that I was concerned with that issue. 

16              I've been doing these for about a year, and

17   you've heard me make presentations for about a year.  And

18   I think you'll find that I try to take a common-sense

19   approach to these types of situations. 

20              And some things that came up in this particular

21   hearing concerned me as to how this case was handled by

22   the company and how the company perceives it will be

23   handled by the Missouri Gaming Commission.  And those were

24   concerns I wanted to address to the Commission about. 

25              Before I begin, I want to point out that I

0009

 1   understand that the loss limits are somewhat of a

 2   controversial issue at this point in time.  And I don't

 3   want anyone to be confused by my comments that I am

 4   commenting on my feelings about the loss limit provision

 5   as a whole. 

 6              If you're asking personally, I believe in the

 7   loss limit provision.  So don't take anything that I say

 8   today as a criticism of the loss limit provisions in

 9   general. 

10              I disagree with a company terminating an

11   otherwise qualified and hard-working employee because of a

12   singular violation of this type. 

13              And I am more troubled by the fact that the

14   company's reasoning, at least to the employee, for his

15   termination was they felt like this would minimize the

16   effect of any proposed discipline that the Commission

17   might give to the company as a result of their termination

18   of the employee. 

19              The one thing I've learned in covering and

20   hearing several loss limit cases over the last year is --

21   is that these employees are set up for failure by the

22   companies. 

23              They are -- dealers are given the very, very

24   difficult task of conducting the games in the manner that

25   is prescribed by the company in the way the companies want

0010

 1   them. 

 2              They are also charged with watching every

 3   customer at their table to make sure that the customers

 4   are not stealing money, or trying to trick them to

 5   successful win the game, or those natures. 

 6              And then you compound that with the problem of

 7   the excessive noise and the commotion that goes on in the

 8   casino environment. 

 9              And then they are also asked to abide by the

10   loss limit provisions.  And the equipment that they are

11   given to accomplish this task in my opinion is not

12   appropriate for the job that they're asked to do. 

13              You've heard several of these cases, and we've

14   talked about -- these machines do not have an audible beep

15   that tells the dealer that the -- that the customer has

16   gone over the loss limit.  They clear out after a matter

17   of time so the dealer can ring in a new transaction. 

18              I feel like it's only a matter of time before

19   even the finest dealer on the floor is going to violate

20   the loss limit provisions because of the equipment that

21   they are given and because of the multiple tasks that they

22   are asked to do. 

23              So I am troubled.  I -- put it this way:  It is

24   my hope that it is not the Commission's policy to minimize

25   the regulatory effect that the loss limit violations have

0011

 1   on the company, because they set forth a system that does

 2   not help the dealer at all in this problem, and then they

 3   fire the dealer as a result of a problem that's basically,

 4   you know, predisposed to happen. 

 5              So I just wanted to raise those concerns that I

 6   have in this particular case. 

 7              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  Is there any reason that

 8   we couldn't penalize the company and not penalize the

 9   individual? 

10              If they discharged him, what you're saying is,

11   in a practical matter, he's gone. 

12              Two questions:  one is, if he reapplies, then

13   he has no record.  Isn't that something that he should

14   have some -- is that something we should think about? 

15              MR. MULLALLY:  Normally I wouldn't comment on

16   these things if it was going to affect the case, but this

17   is really outside the parameters of the case. 

18              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  It's a good time to bring

19   it up. 

20              MR. MULLALLY:  In fact, you did penalize the

21   company.  The admission fined the Missouri Gaming Company

22   $100,000 for the loss limit violations that emanated out

23   of this particular sting.  So the -- it really had no

24   impact on the way the company was treated. 

25              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  How many -- excuse me. 

0012

 1              Go ahead, Lynne. 

 2              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  I was just going to

 3   say, along those lines -- I know it's come up before,

 4   especially this audible beep thing and everything else

 5   going on -- have companies -- not this company, but the

 6   other boats who are represented, has there been any

 7   discussion with their people maybe of changing this system

 8   to not only avoid penalties of that size for the company

 9   but to keep people from being terminated? 

10              MR. MULLALLY:  We -- Clarence Greeno and Steve

11   Johnson -- staff from Steve Johnson's staff has been

12   looking at a number of the technological solutions that

13   might be available.  And I think we are headed towards

14   adopting some kind of standards on that. 

15              I don't know if you want to address that any

16   further, Steve. 

17              MR. JOHNSON:  I can't -- I really can't address

18   it beyond that, except that we're looking at the state-of-

19   the-art systems that are reading systems and tracking

20   systems that should eliminate these things from happening.

21              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  But it might be --

22   and I'm just asking for a guess.  Is it six months away, a

23   year away, two -- two years away? 

24              MR. JOHNSON:  It's terribly expensive

25   technology.  It is being used now in -- in casinos in

0013

 1   Las Vegas.  And it's -- I'd hate to put a time parameter

 2   on it, but it's actually -- it's being tested, it's being

 3   used.  It's probably closer than not if we choose to go

 4   that way aggressively. 

 5              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Can somebody tell me what the

 6   main problem is with the system we've got now? 

 7              And I understand where you're coming from.  But

 8   I'm not sure that -- I don't agree with what you're saying

 9   right now as far as discipline is concerned, but I'm

10   subject to changing my mind before this is over with

11   today. 

12              But I don't really understand -- I know the

13   commotion and so on and so forth.  But how many of these

14   cases do we have where this is a valid defense, if you

15   will --

16              MR. YOST:  I don't want to interrupt you,

17   Mr. Chairman, but I want to make sure that my position is

18   clear.  I do feel that the individual dealer should be

19   subject to discipline for these violations. 

20              In this particular case, I feel like since the

21   fact that this employee has gone seven months without

22   employment is punishment itself. 

23              I placed in my proposed findings -- I don't

24   want my comments to be confused, that I think that this

25   absolves the employee of responsibility, because, clearly,

0014

 1   it does not, in my opinion.  They are still -- it's still

 2   their mental mistake that caused this to happen, and I

 3   feel like they have to be disciplined in order that the

 4   loss limit has the proper respect and attention in their

 5   minds.  I do feel that way. 

 6              My concern simply was, there is a perception on

 7   the part of the company that they feel like by terminating

 8   the employee, that that -- whether that's founded or

 9   unfounded, there is a perception, at least, that they feel

10   like they can avoid discipline by terminating an otherwise

11   fine employee for a system that may be flawed in its

12   inception. 

13              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  If the system is flawed, then

14   I think we need to address that.  I'm just -- maybe I'm

15   confused like maybe the dealers are.  I'm not sure.  I

16   don't -- I'm not perceiving what I need to here as far as,

17   it is this dealer's responsibility. 

18              MR. YOST:  Correct. 

19              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  I guess one of my questions

20   is, does anybody know if most of the gaming industry fire

21   these people when they get this type of a charge and so on

22   and so forth? 

23              I don't remember any, but then maybe they are.

24              Is that a routine, or can anybody answer that? 

25              Or is this unique? 

0015

 1              MR. MULLALLY:  Yeah, I don't know that it is

 2   routine.  And I can certainly say that it's not anything

 3   that's been encouraged by the Gaming Commission staff,

 4   and, frankly, not even anything that we pay a lot of

 5   attention to. 

 6              Company discipline is a separate and distinct

 7   thing from Commission discipline.  And what they choose to

 8   do with their employees has really been, to a large

 9   extent, left up to them. 

10              Now, to the extent that you think we need to

11   start looking at that and see if the casino is acting

12   improperly, I think we're certainly willing to do that.

13   But we really have not -- in no way allowed it to affect

14   the disciplinary process. 

15              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Well, let me make it clear.

16   I'm not -- I don't think we should interfere at this point

17   as to what the gaming companies do with their employees,

18   as long as it's not an illegal act.  So that's not what

19   I'm implying at all. 

20              MR. MULLALLY:  To the -- I'm sorry. 

21              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Go ahead. 

22              MR. MULLALLY:  I think to the extent that an

23   employee felt like they were treated unfairly, there are

24   processes other than the Gaming Commission to deal with

25   that. 

0016

 1              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Do you have --

 2              MR. YOST:  Just so -- I certainly will not

 3   advocate a position that we would get involved in the

 4   personnel policies of the company either. 

 5              As much as I may disagree with their decision,

 6   it's certainly their decision to make. 

 7              My concern simply was the perception that the

 8   company had and why they were dismissing the employee, if

 9   you understand the distinction between those two. 

10              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Oh, sure, I appreciate that.

11              MR. YOST:  As far as the problem -- if you're

12   trying to identify what in my mind the problem is, I just

13   feel like they are given the ominous task -- a dealer on a

14   Saturday night in a packed casino is given these loss

15   limit readers, as far as I -- as best as I'm able to

16   understand, only shows that the person -- the card is

17   not -- is over the limit for a brief period of time, and

18   then it just goes away. 

19              And if you're paying attention to other things,

20   such as whether or not somebody is trying to steal chips

21   or something like that, it's very possible and it's --

22   every case I've had it's been people that, you know,

23   otherwise are fine and they do everything great and they

24   do a great job. 

25              They just -- on a bad night they allowed -- and

0017

 1   the problem I would point out to you is, I don't know how

 2   many times this happens where it's not involving a

 3   trooper.  I only have the cases where it's involved an

 4   undercover trooper. 

 5              So, you know, with the million different things

 6   that they're charged with doing, the one -- you know, the

 7   one thing that can be easily overlooked by the machinery

 8   that is in place is that brief period of time where the

 9   credit-card Verifone says that they're over the limit.

10   And time after time they don't catch it. 

11              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  I have another question,

12   Mr. Chairman, if you're finished. 

13              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Go ahead.  I'm toying. 

14              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  I'm just wondering a

15   little bit about the form of the order. 

16              I guess we're in a situation where the man is

17   guilty of a violation of the rule but he's not

18   disciplined.  And all the final order says is that he's

19   not disciplined. 

20              I'm just wondering if it wouldn't be better off

21   to have a finding that he's been found guilty of the

22   violation, but because of the penalties already received,

23   there will be no discipline.  So if he comes back up for

24   employment, it would reflect that. 

25              MR. YOST:  And I could certainly reword the way

0018

 1   the final order is written. 

 2              I do put in my findings of facts in my last

 3   paragraph involving the conclusions of law that he is

 4   subject -- that he did commit the violation and that he is

 5   subject to discipline. 

 6              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  I saw that.  I thought

 7   in the final order maybe that would make it clear to

 8   everybody that you were finding him guilty, but --

 9              MR. YOST:  That is certainly a change that I

10   can make in this case and in the future. 

11              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  Do you have a problem with

12   that, Kevin? 

13              MR. MULLALLY:  I mean, I'd really like to leave

14   it up to the hearing officer, but I think it makes a lot

15   of sense. 

16              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  I think it would be easier

17   for everybody to understand exactly what happened. 

18              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Also, the last line, if

19   you're going to modify it, you know, you indicate here

20   that they terminated so that the company is not to have to

21   pay any administrative penalty. 

22              And I'm not sure that's a true statement.  Is

23   it? 

24              MR. YOST:  I can just tell you my -- that was

25   what was expressed to the employee when he was terminated

0019

 1   and that was -- I brought -- that last paragraph -- the

 2   last two paragraphs are merely, if you want to call it,

 3   dicta, so to speak, from a legal perspective. 

 4              It's just mainly a concern that I brought up.

 5   I'm not making a factual finding that that is what the

 6   company did.  It's just that my -- that was my concern

 7   with the decision that was made.  And it's just my concern

 8   that that's not the policy of the Commission, which I'm

 9   confident now that it is not. 

10              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  You said he'd been unemployed

11   about how long?  Seven months? 

12              MR. YOST:  At the time of the November hearing

13   he was not working in gaming. 

14              And his testimony was that it was -- possible

15   employers were concerned about this violation or what --

16   I've had cases where people have easily found other jobs

17   in similar situations.  So I can't comment on whether

18   that's completely accurate, but at least that is what was

19   testified to. 

20              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  That was a big thing that

21   bothered me when I read this, you know, does a pending

22   disciplinary thing prohibit those people from being hired?

23              It's not in our rules, is it?  Or is it? 

24              MR. YOST:  No, I don't believe it's a rule that

25   prohibits it. 

0020

 1              MR. MULLALLY:  It can be considered but it's

 2   not --

 3              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Well, I understand that. 

 4              MR. YOST:  Personally, I've had people that

 5   have had discipline that I would consider pending more

 6   serious than this that have been hired on by other

 7   companies for similar positions. 

 8              But every company is different, and I can't

 9   speculate as to why a company would -- or would not hire

10   somebody based on this. 

11              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Well, there may be lots of

12   reasons, but you're right, we should not speculate on it. 

13              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  Mr. Chairman, I move that

14   we approve Resolution 01-001. 

15              I think we've made clear to you our concerns

16   about it, and I think that the termination was correct

17              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  As it stands? 

18              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  As it stands. 

19              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  Are you talking about

20   adding that amendment to it for the --

21              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  I think that's up to the

22   hearing commissioner.  I don't think I can tell him how to

23   do his order. 

24              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  Okay. 

25              MR. YOST:  I would be happy to amend the order

0021

 1   if the Commissioners would like.  That's not a problem for

 2   me. 

 3              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  I think that would better

 4   explain what happened. 

 5              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Are you saying that you want

 6   to remove this from the agenda and present it again? 

 7              MR. YOST:  I would -- just to save the

 8   Commissioners some time, I would propose that I would

 9   amend the final order to say that Thomas Carullo is

10   subject to discipline for the reasons explains above;

11   however, should not be disciplined due to the termination

12   of his employment. 

13              Would that be a sufficient amendment? 

14              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  That's fine with me.  I

15   move the resolution with that amendment to it. 

16              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  Second. 

17              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  We have a motion and we have

18   a second. 

19              I need to make a statement before we call for a

20   vote. 

21              I'm a bit afraid that we're setting a bad

22   precedent.  And I realize I have a motion and a second.  I

23   just want that in the record, that I think that we're

24   setting a bad precedent as far as not addressing the loss

25   limit. 

0022

 1              It's a very controversial thing in the state,

 2   and we certainly don't control whether it's here or

 3   whether it's not.  I realize who is the controlling

 4   factor, and that's the Legislature.  But it is on the

 5   books and there is a violation. 

 6              With that said in the record, call the roll,

 7   Angie, if you will. 

 8              MR. MULLALLY:  Mr. Chairman, if I could just

 9   note, that because there are only three of you, by

10   statute, it will require all three -- it has to be a

11   majority of the Commission. 

12              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  I understand that. 

13              MR. MULLALLY:  I just wanted to . . .

14              We may have a fourth. 

15              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Well, she won't be aware of

16   the controversy and so on and so forth. 

17              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  Is there any reason we

18   just can't table this to the next meeting? 

19              MR. YOST:  That would be --

20              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  And you'll redraft the

21   order then.  I can't see that there is any harm then. 

22              The second isn't mine.  I'll withdraw my motion

23   and make another one. 

24              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  That's fine.  I

25   agree. 

0023

 1              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  I would move that this

 2   resolution be tabled to the next meeting to give the

 3   administrative officer an opportunity to make the changes

 4   he had suggested. 

 5              MR. YOST:  Will Dr. Battle be given a copy of

 6   the transcript, or do you want me to restate the

 7   discussion we just had? 

 8              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  We will give her a portion of

 9   the transcript before the next meeting. 

10              Can you make sure she gets that --

11              MS. FRANKS:  Sure. 

12              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  -- at least that portion of

13   it. 

14              Okay. 

15              MR. YOST:  Thank you very much.  I

16   appreciate --

17              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Thank you. 

18              MR. YOST:  -- your patience with me on this

19              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  Thank you. 

20              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Thank you. 

21              MR. MULLALLY:  Mr. Chairman, if I could just

22   note, I think Staff is in full agreement with Hearing

23   Officer Yost's concern about the tools that are given the

24   employees in order to enforce the loss limit. 

25              It has been something that, frankly, we have

0024

 1   been looking at since the fall and this last round of loss

 2   limit stings. 

 3              I think because of the change-over in personnel

 4   at the management level of the administrative staff, it's

 5   something that hasn't proceeded as quickly as we would

 6   like, but it is an area that we're looking at very

 7   closely. 

 8              We had, frankly, hoped that the industry would

 9   step up to the plate before we would have to come to them

10   with a rule, and that they would implement these changes

11   and provide their people with the necessary tools in order

12   to enforce the loss limit without the requirement of a

13   rule, because of the varying ways that I'm sure you're

14   aware that they enforce the loss limits. 

15              Some have the electronic cards, some have the

16   paper system and things like that. 

17              And the reason we had hoped that, because the

18   rulemaking process, as you know, is fairly long and

19   cumbersome, and it would take a long way to implement

20   anyway. 

21              I think we are getting to the point where a

22   rule may be needed. 

23              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  If it's needed, then that's

24   fine.  Or is this need based on an isolated incident?

25              MR. MULLALLY:  No.  This is something we've

0025

 1   been looking at for quite some time. 

 2              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  And that was the

 3   reason for my question, because I keep hearing some of the

 4   same reasons.  So it's, like, are the tools there? 

 5              MR. MULLALLY:  It was something that was

 6   important particularly to Ralph Biele, and he started -- I

 7   think Clarence has mostly done the bulk of the work on it.

 8   But, of course, then Ralph retired, and Steve Johnson has

 9   recently taken over.  And so that's hindered the process a

10   little bit. 

11              But we are -- we fully intend to address this

12   and be aggressive with it. 

13              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  Are we the only state in

14   the country that has the loss limit? 

15              MR. MULLALLY:  The only jurisdiction in the

16   world that has the loss limit. 

17              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  So it may not -- it may be

18   why there hasn't been --

19              MR. MULLALLY:  That is one of the problems the

20   industry cites.  Some of them are claiming that their

21   software vendors are refusing to do it, because Missouri

22   is the only market for it. 

23              I think maybe refusing to do it for the price

24   they're willing to pay, may be a more complete

25   explanation.  I can't believe that a software vendor is

0026

 1   just flat-out refusing to do it. 

 2              But I think there are a number of ways that we

 3   can address those things, and I have full confidence in

 4   Steve Johnson's persuasive ability. 

 5              So I think it's something that we can probably

 6   give you a good update on at the next

 7   meeting.                     

 8              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Well, I'd like to have one.

 9              Does it even appear that it might be cost

10   effective? 

11              That's really not a concern of the Commission,

12   I understand that, but still in all --

13              MR. JOHNSON:  In the context that it is, if

14   we're going to be forced into the rulemaking process to

15   help with the loss limit issue, then I suppose that it is

16   cost effective. 

17              But I echo the director -- acting director's

18   concerns.  I wish that we didn't have to go in that

19   direction.  However, we've looked at just this last week a

20   state-of-the-art tracking system in Las Vegas.  We do have

21   some remedies that we are actively discussing and will be

22   prepared to make a presentation. 

23              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Well, I'd like to know how

24   big the problem really is, that we can address. 

25              MR. JOHNSON:  It's significant, Mr. Chairman,

0027

 1   in that the loss limit issue is so easily circumvented.

 2   And I don't know that a foolproof system exists to

 3   regulate that.  I think that's a matter of record. 

 4              But I think if we are forced into that posture,

 5   that we can get pretty darn close to it. 

 6              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Just document what we need,

 7   Steve. 

 8              MR. JOHNSON:  All right, sir. 

 9              MR. MULLALLY:  I think Hearing Officer Yost was

10   exactly right in that, yes, some of these employees need

11   to pay more attention to what they're doing and got to

12   place a high priority on the loss limit. 

13              But the tools they are given in order to

14   enforce this, given the job that they are expected to do

15   and the environment they're expected to do it, sometimes

16   is asking a little much. 

17              MR. YOST:  And I would just say that it's my

18   opinion from the cases I've seen that I think at least

19   from the teller end of it, just the simple changes in

20   software would almost essentially eliminate their mistakes

21   from the equation.  And that's really what my concern is.

22              I bring it up to the point that I think these

23   are mistakes that could be corrected -- this is a system

24   that could be changed to eliminate the possibility of

25   mistake without tremendous difficulty, and that's where my

0028

 1   concern was. 

 2              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Well, I just want you to

 3   understand that you weren't on trial this morning.

 4              MR. YOST:  Oh, I understand. 

 5              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  I know it seems like it.

 6              MR. YOST:  No, not at all. 

 7              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  I think it was a point that

 8   well taken, hopefully by the Commission. 

 9              After the discussion, I more appreciate that

10   you did write it like you did, because maybe it will lay

11   something to rest. 

12              MR. YOST:  And that was really my concern.  And

13   I didn't take any of the questions from the commissioners

14   as hostile in any way. 

15              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Okay. 

16              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  The more information we

17   can be provided, the better chance we can --

18              MR. YOST:  And that was really -- I'll be

19   honest with you, these are issues I've been, I guess,

20   wanting to raise to the Commission for a while, but I

21   didn't feel like it was case appropriate until this

22   particular case came up.  And that's why I chose to bring

23   it up at this point in time. 

24              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Any time, we'll be glad to

25   address that. 

0029

 1              MR. YOST:  I thought you might like an opinion

 2   from the trenches, so to speak. 

 3              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Fine.  Thank you. 

 4              MR. YOST:  Thank you. 

 5              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  We need to vote on my

 6   motion to table. 

 7              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  We need a motion. 

 8              We have a motion. 

 9              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  I'll second it. 

10              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  And you second. 

11              Welcome aboard. 

12              Angie, would you call the roll on the tabling

13   of the motion, please. 

14              MS. FRANKS:  Chairman Ullery? 

15              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  In favor. 

16              MS. FRANKS:  Commissioner Smith? 

17              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  In favor. 

18              MS. FRANKS:  Commissioner Nikolaisen? 

19              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  Favor. 

20              MS. FRANKS:  Commissioner Battle? 

21              COMMISSIONER BATTLE:  Favor. 

22              MS. FRANKS:  By your vote you have tabled the

23   hearing officer recommendation in Resolution No. 01-001. 

24              MR. MULLALLY:  Mr. Chairman, under Tab E,

25   you'll find Resolution No. 01-002 regarding the

0030

 1   consideration of licensure of certain Level I and key

 2   person licensees. 

 3              Sergeant George Hamilton from the Missouri

 4   State Highway Patrol will make the presentation. 

 5              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  George, before you start,

 6   give me just a minute or two. 

 7              SERGEANT HAMILTON:  Yes, sir. 

 8              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  First of all, we've noted

 9   that Dr. Battle is present. 

10              The second thing is, that we will get a

11   transcript relatively early, I hope, on our discussion on

12   why we're tabling this, so you know what we're coming from

13   and what went on.  We had a terrible quandary. 

14              COMMISSIONER BATTLE:  See what happens when I'm

15   not here. 

16              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  You need to be here on time

17   in order to keep us in order. 

18              Okay.  Go ahead, George. 

19              SERGEANT HAMILTON:  Mr. Chairman,

20   Commissioners. 

21              The background teams conducted investigations

22   of a key person and Level I's that included but were not

23   limited to criminal, financial and general character

24   inquiries. 

25              The following individuals have been

0031

 1   investigated and found to be suitable for licensure by the

 2   Commission:  Randy S. Reedy, Director of Slot Operations

 3   at Ameristar Casino Kansas City, Incorporated; Deborah L.

 4   Wiliker, Director of Finance at Harrah's North Kansas

 5   City, LLC; David P. Miller, Senior Director of Operations

 6   at Isle of Capri-Kansas City, Incorporated; Robert W.

 7   Little, Key Person (General Manager) of St. Joe Riverboat

 8   Partners. 

 9              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Any questions from the

10   commissioner? 

11              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  I think they all look

12   clean to me.  I don't see anybody that has any sort of bad

13   record on them. 

14              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Do we have motion on

15   Resolution 01-002?            

16              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  I move for adoption. 

17              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Do we have a second? 

18              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  I would second it. 

19              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  We have a motion and a

20   second. 

21              Angie. 

22              MS. FRANKS:  Chairman Ullery? 

23              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  In favor. 

24              MS. FRANKS:  Commissioner Smith? 

25              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  In favor. 

0032

 1              MS. FRANKS:  Commissioner Nikolaisen? 

 2              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  Favor. 

 3              MS. FRANKS:  Commissioner Battle? 

 4              COMMISSIONER BATTLE:  In favor. 

 5              MS. FRANKS:  By your vote you've adopted

 6   Resolution No. 01-002. 

 7              MR. MULLALLY:  Mr. Chairman, under Tabs F

 8   through M, you have the staff reports and resolutions

 9   regarding the consideration of relicensure of certain

10   suppliers. 

11              And Sergeant Hamilton, again, will make the

12   presentation. 

13              SERGEANT HAMILTON:  Mr. Chairman and

14   Commissioners, background investigations to include

15   criminal history checks and tax reviews of the following

16   suppliers and their respective key persons have been

17   conducted in conjunction with their relicensing. 

18              As a result of the investigations, the

19   following suppliers have been found suitable for

20   relicensing by the Commission:  Acres Gaming,

21   Incorporated; The Bud Jones Company; Mikohn Gaming

22   Corporation; George C. Matteson Company, Incorporated;

23   Sigma Game, Incorporated; Atronic Casino Technology, LLC. 

24              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  That's F through M.  Is that

25   correct? 

0033

 1              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  H through M.

 2              H through M is relicensure, and I think F and G

 3   are new licenses, if I'm reading that correctly. 

 4              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Okay. 

 5              Any questions, comments? 

 6              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  I move the adoption of

 7   Commission Resolution 01-003 --

 8              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  No.  Wait.  What did

 9   we just -- I thought we did H through -- I'm confused. 

10              MR. MULLALLY:  You're right.  F and G are new

11   licenses. 

12              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  Those are new. 

13              We just did H through M. 

14              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  I think he just called it

15   to our attention.  I don't think we voted on it. 

16              SERGEANT HAMILTON:  We stepped up one notch. 

17              MR. MULLALLY:  All right.  H through --

18              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Okay. 

19              MR. MULLALLY:  H through m, and we'll come back

20   to F and G, I guess. 

21              SERGEANT HAMILTON:  Right. 

22              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  Do we move for these

23   separately or -- should they be done separately?

24              MR. MULLALLY:  You can have a motion to do them

25   all at once, if there is no objection.      

0034

 1              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  Can I move to do --

 2   starting with Resolution No. 01-005 through 01-010

 3   simultaneously for approval, please, unless there is an

 4   objection. 

 5              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Do we have an objection? 

 6              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  That's fine with me. 

 7              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  I have a motion for

 8   Resolution 01-005 through 01-010. 

 9              Do I have a second? 

10              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  Second. 

11              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  I have a motion and a second.

12              Angie. 

13              MS. FRANKS:  Chairman Ullery? 

14              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  In favor. 

15              MS. FRANKS:  Commissioner Smith? 

16              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  In favor. 

17              MS. FRANKS:  Commissioner Nikolaisen? 

18              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  Favor. 

19              MS. FRANKS:  Commissioner Battle? 

20              COMMISSIONER BATTLE:  In favor. 

21              MS. FRANKS:  By your vote you've adopted

22   Resolution No. 01-005, 01-006, 01-007, 01-008, 01-009 and

23   01-010. 

24              MR. MULLALLY:  Now, back to Tab F, we have a

25   consideration of a new license for supplier Osborne

0035

 1   Coinage Company. 

 2              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  And that is 01-003.  Is that

 3   correct? 

 4              MR. MULLALLY:  That is correct. 

 5              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Thank you. 

 6              SERGEANT HAMILTON:  Mr. Chairman and

 7   Commissioners, investigators of the Missouri Gaming

 8   Commission conducted the background investigation of the

 9   Osborne Coinage Company. 

10              The investigation included criminal, character

11   and financial inquiries into its background and the

12   following key persons:  Thomas E. Stegman, President and

13   Chief Executive Officer; Jeffrey J. Stegman,

14   Vice-President and Secretary; Todd R. Stegman,

15   Vice-President and Treasurer; Thomas E. D'Agnillo, Chief

16   Financial Officer. 

17              The financial background investigation of the

18   company included, but was not limited to, the inspection

19   of corporate tax returns, the source and application of

20   funds, including the use of funds for public offerings,

21   the examination of loans to and from stockholders and

22   corporate officers, cash-flow analysis and bad-debt

23   write-offs and a review of all corporate litigation. 

24              The financial background investigation of the

25   key persons included, but not limited to, examination of

0036

 1   individual tax returns, bank and brokerage statements, all

 2   sources of income, including all nontaxable income, and

 3   employment agreements. 

 4              Criminal and character background checks

 5   included, but were not limited to, checks with federal,

 6   state, county and municipal law enforcement agencies where

 7   the individuals have lived, worked and frequented. 

 8              The Osborne Coinage Company is a manufacturer

 9   of commemorative coins, tokens and other metal stampings.

10              Osborne is one of approximately private mints

11   in the United States. 

12              The findings of the investigation, including

13   the financial review, disclosed no discrepancies or

14   concerns that would preclude licensing the Osborne Coinage

15   Company as a supplier in the State of Missouri. 

16              Based on our findings, the investigative team

17   recommends that Osborne Coinage Company be found suitable

18   for licensure for supplier in the State of Missouri. 

19              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Do they supply the tokens?

20   Is that what they do? 

21              SERGEANT HAMILTON:  Yes, sir. 

22              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  Do you-all actually go to

23   the plant to observe their security? 

24              SERGEANT HAMILTON:  Yes, sir, we did.

25              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman.

0037

 1   I was reading this before and didn't listen to what was

 2   going on when I made a notion to approve it.  So I'll

 3   renew it. 

 4              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  You'll renew the motion?

 5              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  Yes. 

 6              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  We have a motion. 

 7              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  Second. 

 8              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  And a second for 01-003. 

 9              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  They seem to be perfectly

10   clean as far as I can see. 

11              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Angie, would you call the

12   roll. 

13              MS. FRANKS:  Chairman Ullery? 

14              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  In favor. 

15              MS. FRANKS:  Commissioner Smith? 

16              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  In favor. 

17              MS. FRANKS:  Commissioner Nikolaisen? 

18              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  Favor. 

19              MS. FRANKS:  Commissioner Battle? 

20              COMMISSIONER BATTLE:  In favor. 

21              MS. FRANKS:  By your vote you've adopted

22   Resolution No. 01-003. 

23              MR. MULLALLY:  Under Tab G is consideration of

24   licensure for United States Playing Card Company. 

25              SERGEANT HAMILTON:  Mr. Chairman and

0038

 1   Commissioners, investigators of the Missouri Gaming

 2   Commission conducted the background investigation of

 3   United States Playing Card Company for a supplier's

 4   license. 

 5              Pardon me. 

 6              The investigation included criminal, character

 7   and financial inquiries into its background and the

 8   following key persons:  Charles R. Zunk, President And

 9   chief Executive Officer; James T. Perry, Senior

10   Vice-President and General Counsel; David W. Sommerkamp,

11   Vice-President, Chief Financial Officer, Treasurer and

12   Assistant Secretary; Dudley S. Taft, Majority Stockholder. 

13              The financial background investigation of the

14   company included, but was not limited to, inspection of

15   corporate tax returns, the source and application of

16   funds, including the use of funds for public offerings,

17   the examination of loans to and from stockholders and

18   corporate officers, cash-flow analysis and bad-debt

19   write-offs, and a review of all corporate litigation. 

20              The financial background of the key persons

21   included, but not limited to, examination of individual

22   tax returns, bank and brokerage statements, all sources of

23   income, including all nontaxable income, and employment

24   agreements. 

25              The criminal and character background checks

0039

 1   included, but were not limited to, checks with the

 2   federal, state, county, municipal law enforcement agencies

 3   where the individuals have lived, worked and frequented.

 4              The United States Playing Cards manufactures

 5   playing cards of all types, in single or multi-color back

 6   designs, marketed under numerous brand names in both the

 7   domestic and foreign markets. 

 8              They also manufacture custom-design playing

 9   cards, special cards for game producers and distributors,

10   custom casino playing cards for numerous casinos

11   throughout the world, instruction and rule books and

12   numerous related products. 

13              Findings in the investigation, including the

14   financial review, disclosed no discrepancies or concerns

15   that would preclude licensing the United States Playing

16   Card Company as a supplier in the State of Missouri.

17              Based on our findings, the investigative team

18   recommends that the United States Playing Card Company be

19   found suitable for licensure as a supplier in the State of

20   Missouri. 

21              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Comments, discussions? 

22              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  I just had one question.

23              I notice a holding company acquired this

24   company. 

25              SERGEANT HAMILTON:  Yes, sir. 

0040

 1              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  I guess, actually controls

 2   it.  I'm curious, why are we investigating the subsidiary

 3   rather than the holding company? 

 4              MR. MULLALLY:  Because the subsidiary is the

 5   actual licensee.  That's a common corporate structure.

 6              For instance, Harrah's, we license the Harrah's

 7   parent as a key person; but the actual licensees are each

 8   one of these subsidiary riverboat companies in Kansas City

 9   and Maryland Heights. 

10              It's a similar situation here.  The holding

11   company is a key person, and all of those people were

12   investigated, but the actual licensee is the subsidiary

13   applicant. 

14              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  We actually investigate

15   the key persons in the holding company? 

16              MR. MULLALLY:  The holding company essentially

17   becomes a key person. 

18              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  Okay. 

19              MR. MULLALLY:  Just like the officers and

20   directors do.  But the actual licensee is the company. 

21              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  I understand.  I was

22   curious as to whether we go back to --

23              MR. MULLALLY:  Yes, we do. 

24              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  I move for adoption

25   of Resolution No. 01-004. 

0041

 1              COMMISSIONER BATTLE:  Second. 

 2              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  We have a motion and a

 3   second. 

 4              Angie, would you call the roll. 

 5              MS. FRANKS:  Chairman Ullery? 

 6              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  In favor. 

 7              MS. FRANKS:  Commissioner Smith? 

 8              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  In favor. 

 9              MS. FRANKS:  Commissioner Nikolaisen? 

10              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  In favor. 

11              MS. FRANKS:  Commissioner Battle? 

12              COMMISSIONER BATTLE:  In favor. 

13              MS. FRANKS:  By your vote you've adopted

14   Resolution No. 01-004. 

15              MR. MULLALLY:  A side note, Commissioner Smith,

16   one of the things that you see in this job is some of the

17   more incredibly complicated corporate structures known to

18   man, and that is why I was always thankful to have Greg

19   Omer before Patricia, and Patricia now, to explain to me

20   what these things mean. 

21              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  It's a major job. 

22              I think the public ought to realize how far you

23   go in investigating these people. 

24              MR. MULLALLY:  Yeah. 

25              SERGEANT HAMILTON:  Thank you. 

0042

 1              MR. MULLALLY:  Under Tab N, Mr. Chairman and

 2   Commissioners, you'll find Resolution No. 01-001-B,

 3   regarding a proposed settlement agreement with the

 4   Sikeston Eagles Lodge bingo licensee. 

 5              And Mike Bradley from the Attorney General's

 6   Office will make the presentation. 

 7              MR. BRADLEY:  Good morning. 

 8              Before you, you have Sikeston Eagle Lodge.

 9   Their violations were they had illegal machines there;

10   they had pull tabs that weren't purchased from a licensed

11   pull-tab supplier; they had recordkeeping problems, both

12   in their cash management and sending in their names to the

13   Gaming Commission; and they also had a worker who was

14   playing bingo and kind of helping out working at the same

15   time, which is, of course, prohibited. 

16              The original proposed discipline was a six-

17   month suspension.  And as we discuss with everyone in

18   these bingo cases, the bingo operators consider a six-

19   months suspension to be a death penalty.  We're putting

20   them out of business. 

21              The compromised settlement that we reached with

22   them would be a one-month suspension and would include a

23   $500 fine that would be paid from nonbingo accounts. 

24              So we'd be hitting the members of the

25   organization for $500 out of their own accounts. 

0043

 1              They, of course, have given assurances that all

 2   of the paperwork problems have been corrected, that they

 3   corrected the situation with the worker going back and

 4   forth, and the machines are gone, and they're going to buy

 5   the pull tabs from the people that they're supposed to. 

 6              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  It makes sense to me. 

 7              Do we have any comments, discussions? 

 8              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  I move for adoption

 9   of Resolution No. 01-001-B. 

10              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Do we have a second?       

11              COMMISSIONER BATTLE:  Second. 

12              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  We have a second. 

13              Angie. 

14              MS. FRANKS:  Chairman Ullery? 

15              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  In favor. 

16              MS. FRANKS:  Commissioner Smith? 

17              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  In favor. 

18              MS. FRANKS:  Commissioner Nikolaisen? 

19              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  In favor. 

20              MS. FRANKS:  Commissioner Battle? 

21              COMMISSIONER BATTLE:  In favor. 

22              MS. FRANKS:  By your vote you've adopted

23   Resolution No. 01-001-B. 

24              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Mr. Chairman, under Tab O we

25   have two final orders of rulemaking.  These are proposed

0044

 1   rule that you had previously adopted and have since gone

 2   through the public hearing process. 

 3              And General Counsel Churchill will make the

 4   presentation. 

 5              MS. CHURCHILL:  Good morning. 

 6              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Good morning. 

 7              MS. CHURCHILL:  Mr. Chairman, members of the

 8   Commission, under Tab O, the first item is a proposed new

 9   rule, which was 11 CSR 45-17.015, and that allows people

10   who are on the DAP list to go on the boat for purposes of

11   employment only.  And there were no comments received on

12   that rule. 

13              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  I'm curious, are we

14   receiving any requests from this other than the one lady

15   that is involved? 

16              THE COURT REPORTER:  I'm sorry.  What was that?

17              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  I think there was one lady

18   involved who had this problem, and I wonder if that's been

19   something that's affected anyone other than just the one

20   woman. 

21              MS. CHURCHILL:  I think we're looking to see if

22   our --

23              MR. MULLALLY:  I don't see Melissa.  I'm not

24   aware of anyone --

25              MS. FRANKS:  She's here. 

0045

 1              MR. MULLALLY:  There she is. 

 2              MS. STEVENS:  I didn't catch the conversation

 3   though. 

 4              MR. MULLALLY:  Have we had any requests other

 5   than Patty Farr from a casino employee to access the

 6   disassociated persons list? 

 7              MS. STEVENS:  I believe I've seen a record of

 8   one, but I can't remember exactly who it was. 

 9              MR. MULLALLY:  Where is Patty? 

10              MS. STEVENS:  Patty is here. 

11              But I believe I saw a record of one in the

12   file.  Not since I've come on board, but I've heard of

13   other people addressing it. 

14              MR. MULLALLY:  Patty Farr is here if you want

15   to --

16              MS. FARR:  Can I make a comment on that?

17              MR. MULLALLY:  Sure.  Come on up so you can --

18              MS. FARR:  When I approached the Gaming

19   Commission to do what I did, when employees try to be

20   disassociated, they are told they'll lose their jobs. 

21              So that's why you don't see anyone else on the

22   list, because no one else would go as far as I did to

23   bring this to an issue to make it changed. 

24              I'm involved in a 12-step program, and in that

25   12-step program there are -- there are several employees

0046

 1   that are trying to go that way, and were told if they

 2   disassociate, they will lose their jobs.  So they opt not

 3   to do that, because it isn't an option.  It isn't even a

 4   choice for them. 

 5              And that's why I've pursued this to the extent

 6   that I've done, because it should be an option.  We should

 7   have that choice as an employee -- an employee at a casino

 8   to take advantages of the program that is offered.

 9              Because it's -- it's -- as an employee, to me,

10   I -- I -- my job meant a lot to me.  And the fact that I

11   would have different consequences upon not abiding by the

12   rules of that agreement, meaning my gaming license would

13   be in jeopardy because of the trespassing arrest, on top

14   of the trespassing charges themselves, being on that list

15   meant more to me probably than the general public. 

16              And that's why I've taken it to this extreme,

17   and that's my opinion on that. 

18              Yes, there are other employees who want to do

19   it, but out of fear of losing their job, they choose not

20   to. 

21              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Does this rule do what you

22   anticipated it might --

23              MS. FARR:  Yes. 

24              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  - or have you had an

25   opportunity to look at it? 

0047

 1              MS. FARR:  Yes, I did. 

 2              Kevin Mullally did send it to me, and I did see

 3   it.  I -- I feel -- I think when it was designed that it

 4   was designed more for a new employee, not an existing

 5   employee. 

 6              But I think it -- in this -- the way it's

 7   written, that it can do for both the new and the existing

 8   employee already. 

 9              So I like -- he sent me the first draft of it,

10   and I didn't agree with it real -- but I suggested some

11   changes.  And he e-mailed me back the changes that were

12   made.  And it appears to be worded that it will work for

13   both existing and people seeking employment. 

14              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Thank you. 

15              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  Is there some way that you

16   can notify the various gaming companies of this rule, the

17   fact that there should be no incrimination as a result of

18   it? 

19              MR. MULLALLY:  Yes, Commissioner. 

20              Once the rule is effected, we will get notice

21   out to all of the licensees.  I don't know whether we'll

22   go through the companies or not.  We may just go directly

23   to the licensees. 

24              And to follow up on what Patty said, it is

25   certainly our intent to offer this not only to new

0048

 1   employees but to existing employees as well, as well as

 2   people who are not necessarily employed at a casino but

 3   whose job may require them to go on the casino floor of --

 4   the Coke machine guy or whoever, or EMT or somebody with

 5   that type of job that may occasionally require them to go

 6   on the casino floor. 

 7              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  So if I was on that list and

 8   once this is a rule and I applied for a job, that could

 9   not be used as a reason to deny me a job.  Is that right? 

10              MR. MULLALLY:  Absolutely. 

11              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Thank you. 

12              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  Mr. Chairman, I move the

13   adoption of 11 CSR 45.17.015. 

14              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  Second. 

15              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  We have a motion and we have

16   a second. 

17              Angie. 

18              MS. FRANKS:  Chairman Ullery? 

19              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  In favor. 

20              MS. FRANKS:  Commissioner Smith? 

21              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  In favor. 

22              MS. FRANKS:  Commissioner Nikolaisen? 

23              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  Favor. 

24              MS. FRANKS:  Commissioner Battle? 

25              COMMISSIONER BATTLE:  In favor. 

0049

 1              MS. FRANKS:  By your vote you've adopted the

 2   final order of rulemaking 11 CSR 45-17.015. 

 3              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  I think we ought to thank

 4   you again for bringing this to our attention.  We

 5   appreciate it. 

 6              MS. CHURCHILL:  Mr. Chairman, next under Tab O,

 7   No. 2 is 11 CSR 45-31.005, which is an amended rule

 8   regarding the processing of bingo disciplines. 

 9              Previously they were handled similar to

10   riverboat license disciplines here in-house at the Gaming

11   Commission.  But after a review of the law, it's

12   determined that they belong really more appropriately at

13   the Administrative Hearing Commission, and that is what

14   this does. 

15              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  I think I just saw one of

16   those come through. 

17              MS. CHURCHILL:  You may have.  I believe

18   probably --

19              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Okay.  Do we have any

20   comments? 

21              MS. CHURCHILL:  And I would add, also, no

22   comments were received on this rule. 

23              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Okay.  Do we have a motion,

24   please? 

25              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  I move for approval

0050

 1   of 11 CSR 45-31.005. 

 2              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Do we have a second? 

 3              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  Second. 

 4              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  We have a motion and a

 5   second. 

 6              Angie. 

 7              MS. FRANKS:  Chairman Ullery? 

 8              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Favor. 

 9              MS. FRANKS:  Commissioner Smith? 

10              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  In favor.

11              MS. FRANKS:  Commissioner Nikolaisen? 

12              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  Favor. 

13              MS. FRANKS:  Commissioner Battle? 

14              COMMISSIONER BATTLE:  In favor. 

15              MS. FRANKS:  By your vote you've adopted the

16   final order of rulemaking 11 CSR 45-31.005. 

17              MR. MULLALLY:  Mr. Chairman, on a personal

18   note, I'd also like to express my appreciation for Patty

19   Farr and her tenacity on this issue. 

20              And I think it is a shining example of how a

21   citizen can affect the process and affect the laws.  And I

22   mean, this is where the Erin Brockovichs of the world come

23   from.  And she ought to be congratulated for her courage

24   in stepping up to the plate on this issue. 

25              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  I agree.  She's very

0051

 1   brave. 

 2              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  I think we grilled you just a

 3   little bit early on, didn't we? 

 4              Thank you. 

 5              MS. FARR:  Thank you. 

 6              MR. MULLALLY:  Mr. Chairman, the next item on

 7   the agenda is an update on the status of the Isle of Capri

 8   construction project in -- construction projects in

 9   Boonville and Kansas City. 

10              And I believe Tom Campbell is here to speak for

11   the company. 

12              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  I've been waiting to talk to

13   you, Mr. Campbell. 

14              MR. CAMPBELL:  Well, likewise, Chairman. 

15              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Go ahead, if you will,

16   please. 

17              MR. CAMPBELL:  Mr. Chairman, Commissioners,

18   Director Mullally, good morning.  My name is Tom Campbell.

19   I'm a partner with the St. Louis law firm of Gallop,

20   Johnson and Neuman.  I represent the Isle of Capri. 

21              I'm here today to update you on two of the

22   ongoing projects; one, the first being in Kansas City.

23              This, as you're aware, is a casino that was

24   operating.  The Isle of Capri acquired that casino and has

25   undertaken considerable renovation both on the interior

0052

 1   and the exterior of that facility. 

 2              The interior work is very near completion.  The

 3   water element has been completed, the escalator, the

 4   facade of the buffet, Farradays Restaurant is opened and

 5   doing business.  The VIP room has been completed.

 6              Still under construction on the interior work

 7   is the Tradewinds Restaurant, the elevator and an updated

 8   cashier area.  That will -- that work on those three items

 9   will take approximately two to three weeks. 

10              In regards to the exterior renovation, the

11   intent of the Isle of Capri is to make this exterior

12   resemble as closely as feasible the historic facade of a

13   riverboat. 

14              A pilot house is being added, smokestacks,

15   window treatments, decorative trim.  And, really, the

16   hold-up at this point is the painting, and the hold-up is

17   the weather. 

18              We are hopeful that the weather will cooperate

19   and we can get the painting done.  And the Isle is

20   comfortable in representing to you today that the work

21   will be done in April, barring unforeseen inclement

22   weather. 

23              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  And that never

24   happens in this state. 

25              MR. CAMPBELL:  No.  And only in December. 

0053

 1              Are there any questions on that update before I

 2   move on to Boonville? 

 3              The Boonville project is not quite as far

 4   along.  The environmental work has been completed.  DNR

 5   approval is expected in a two- to three-week time frame.

 6              All of the site earth work is 70 percent

 7   complete.  The excavation is 100 percent complete in the

 8   basin.  The pile work is 100 percent complete in the basin

 9   and 80 percent complete in the pavilion area. 

10              There is -- negotiations are ongoing with the

11   railroad concerning the spur work.  We are optimistic that

12   those will be reached to some fruitful conclusion very --

13   very shortly. 

14              A building permit has been obtained, was issued

15   on November 21st of last year.  And the Isle is seeking

16   proposals on traffic flow and count study. 

17              Barges are -- are in place with the elements

18   that are necessary for the completion of that phase. 

19              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  Given what you have

20   just presented to us, what would be your guess, how far

21   behind is this from original expectations of completion?

22              MR. CAMPBELL:  Prior to December I could have

23   reported to you that it was actually ahead of schedule.

24   With December it has fallen slightly behind. 

25              Again, there is hope that with fair weather the

0054

 1   rest of the winter, that it can move along, with an

 2   opening sometime in the fall. 

 3              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  Okay. 

 4              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  I went over and looked at

 5   your site yesterday.  I knew this was coming up.  And you

 6   sure have moved a lot of dirt, I can say that.  It looks

 7   like one big mess right now in view of the weather and

 8   everything.  But I can see a lot of work has been done. 

 9              I don't know whether you're aware or not:  The

10   Columbian Missourian came out with a headline story today

11   which is critical of your project, on the grounds that

12   people in Boonville -- some of them are still unhappy with

13   the riverboat.  I don't know whether you've seen that or

14   not. 

15              MR. CAMPBELL:  I haven't, Commissioner.  Thank

16   you for bringing it to my attention. 

17              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  You might want to take a

18   look at it. 

19              MR. CAMPBELL:  Sure. 

20              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  There still seems to be

21   some difference of opinion in Boonville as to whether it

22   is or it is not desirable. 

23              It does look like you have made substantial

24   progress on all of the earth moving.  I didn't realize the

25   extent of it until you go out and see it. 

0055

 1              MR. CAMPBELL:  Yeah, quite a bit.  And

 2   hopefully some of the negative comments that you're

 3   alluding to are based in part on the visual appearance at

 4   this point, with a lot of dirt and not a real pleasant

 5   site. 

 6              But as I think as the dirt is transformed into

 7   the casino and all of the other things that go with it,

 8   that those opinions will change. 

 9              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  Do you-all feel confident

10   that you've exposed of the contaminants that were there in

11   the old junk yard and that sort of thing?  Is DNR

12   satisfied that you've solved that problem?      

13              MR. CAMPBELL:  Well, they have that.  And we're

14   still waiting for their formal approval.  And until that

15   is forthcoming, we're cautiously optimistic. 

16              It's been reported that those have been taken

17   care of by our environmental company. 

18              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  All right.  And you have a

19   firm that is familiar with these requirements working on

20   it? 

21              MR. CAMPBELL:  I have been told that the firm

22   is competent and has dealt with this. 

23              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  It's a major paperwork

24   job, I know. 

25              MR. CAMPBELL:  Yes. 

0056

 1              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  Nothing further. 

 2              COMMISSIONER BATTLE:  I think in one report I

 3   read that it would be --

 4              THE COURT REPORTER:  I'm sorry.  I couldn't

 5   hear you. 

 6              COMMISSIONER BATTLE:  In one report, that it

 7   would be opened in November. 

 8              MR. CAMPBELL:  Yes.  Again, if we get fair

 9   weather the rest of the winter, it -- some time in the

10   fall.  Whether it's closer to Labor Day or closer to

11   Thanksgiving, it's still uncertain.  But we're optimistic

12   that it's going to move along on schedule. 

13              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Any more questions in

14   reference to the two locations?           

15              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  But there hasn't been any

16   wavering as far as the city council and the governmental

17   authorities on support of your project, is there? 

18              MR. CAMPBELL:  Absolutely not. 

19              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  I appreciate the report on

20   these two locations.  And I don't want to put you on the

21   spot, but I may. 

22              What can you tell me about Kimmswick?  Or do

23   you handle that for them also?

24              MR. CAMPBELL.  Yes.  Gallop, Johnson, Newman is

25   the Missouri counsel for all three of the projects. 

0057

 1              The Jefferson County project -- and I want to

 2   emphasize that because I think there is a misperception

 3   that this project is located in Kimmswick, and that is not

 4   the case. 

 5              The Jefferson County project is moving along.

 6   The letter offers have gone out to property owners for

 7   properties that will need to be acquired for the access

 8   road.  With the exception of one property owner there have

 9   been responses. 

10              The Isle of Capri has had appraisals prepared

11   on these properties and their offer to these property

12   owners have been over the appraised value. 

13              Now the next step will be for the property

14   owners to obtain their appraisals and, presumably, because

15   we believe our appraiser did his job and came up with a

16   fair appraisal, our presumption is that the property

17   owner's appraisal will be somewhere in the neighborhood,

18   and there will be an agreement reached on many of those

19   properties. 

20              The -- there are several lawsuits pending.

21   Those are being handled in a court of law, and hopefully

22   will be resolved in the very near future. 

23              But the -- as Commission knows, in the early

24   phases of a project, there is a lot of things that go on

25   that don't result in a pile of dirt appearing on the site.

0058

 1   And those things are progressing and are progressing along

 2   in a timely fashion.  And we're optimistic that we'll be

 3   here a year from now reporting success and completion --

 4   near completion on that project. 

 5              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  I don't want you to feel like

 6   I'm pushing the project or I think it's behind, so on and

 7   so forth.  I just wanted to know some generalities, and

 8   you've satisfied me for the moment. 

 9              I am going to request something for me, and

10   you'll have to talk to Kevin Mullally to see what is

11   needed. 

12              I would -- if it's possible, I would like to

13   have an overlay of where everything is going to be. 

14              And I don't know whether that is a request that

15   you can -- where the Isle can supply this or not.  But we

16   have a large aerial photo here.  If you have time, I'd

17   like for you to take a look at that, and I'd like to have

18   an overlay of where everything is going to be, or at

19   least -- and particularly roads, crossings, everything

20   that is involved.  And relatively soon. 

21              MR. CAMPBELL:  Sure. 

22              Not today though? 

23              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Not today. 

24              MR. CAMPBELL:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

25              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  That's all right. 

0059

 1              MR. CAMPBELL:  We'll be happy to do that. 

 2              Just to clarify, you want both the

 3   structures -- the improvements to the property, as well as

 4   access roads and that kind of thing? 

 5              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Yes. 

 6              MR. CAMPBELL:  Okay.  We will do that promptly

 7   and forward it to staff, and they can certainly get it to

 8   you. 

 9              The -- you know, I don't want to convey to the

10   Commission that this project has been without problems.

11   There have been some areas that we have been questioned by

12   staff about -- let me give you an example. 

13              The archeological studies.  We have -- would

14   like to proceed with the archeological site visits and

15   data recovery efforts.  We have been blocked from doing

16   that and denied access to the leasehold, as well as the

17   property where the casino will be constructed, as well as

18   at one particular piece of property that will need to be

19   acquired in order for the access road to be constructed.

20              And until we have access to those properties,

21   we're -- we're not able to proceed at least with that one

22   element of the entire project. 

23              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  Is that part of a

24   lawsuit now? 

25              MR. CAMPBELL:  Well, there are a couple of

0060

 1   lawsuits, one which is going to be tried most likely the

 2   end of February or beginning of March. 

 3              It has to do with an allegation by a property

 4   owner that there was a trespass on the property -- on

 5   their property, and that will need to be decided by a

 6   court of law. 

 7              There is another lawsuit involved, and it's not

 8   quite moving along as quickly as the trespass lawsuit. 

 9              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  But this isn't part

10   of a lawsuit, trying to obtain those studies and the

11   leasehold which you were just describing? 

12              MR. CAMPBELL:  It is -- the lawsuit was -- was

13   brought because of an allegation of a trespass.  And the

14   resolution of the lawsuit, we believe, will establish that

15   the -- that one point of ingress and egress to the

16   leasehold where the casino would be constructed is a road

17   that can be used. 

18              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  Okay. 

19              MR. CAMPBELL:  And then once that it is

20   established --

21              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  So it is related to

22   that problem?  That's my question. 

23              MR. CAMPBELL:  It is. 

24              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  Okay. 

25              MR. CAMPBELL:  But there are other things that

0061

 1   are also related to that problem. 

 2              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  Okay. 

 3              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Maybe you can't answer this,

 4   but trespass, is that the equipment trespass-type thing

 5   that we've heard about, or whatever? 

 6              I don't want you to explain anything that you

 7   don't feel comfortable with. 

 8              MR. CAMPBELL:  Right. 

 9              There was an allegation of a trespass.

10   Specifically what the allegation, I just can't recall now

11   whether it was an allegation of a specific type of vehicle

12   involved in a trespass or a general trespass. 

13              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  A couple of questions, if

14   I might, on this. 

15              Are you acquiring this property for the

16   right-of-way just by private purchase, or is there going

17   to be condemnation by the county on it? 

18              MR. CAMPBELL:  Well, the process starts with an

19   offer to negotiate a settlement and a purchase. 

20              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  I thought the condemning

21   authority has to make an offer in order to get

22   condemnation.  I didn't know if the offer was coming

23   through the county or through you. 

24              MR. CAMPBELL:  Well, there needs to be a good-

25   faith attempt to acquire the property in a private

0062

 1   setting, and that has been undertaken. 

 2              And up to this point we -- the Isle has heard

 3   responses from all but one of the property owners.  And so

 4   there is an expectation that there can be an accommodation

 5   made with those properties owners to acquire the property. 

 6              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  Is the property owner that

 7   you're talking about the one where the salt springs are

 8   located and potential Indian sites? 

 9              MR. CAMPBELL:  Yes, Commissioner. 

10              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  You've made no progress in

11   respect to negotiation with him? 

12              MR. CAMPBELL:  Without getting into a lot of

13   the negotiations, we have made a good-faith effort and

14   thus far we have not been successful in getting a

15   response. 

16              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  I think you have -- at

17   least I know the State has authority to go on the property

18   to do a condemnation, but I assume a private condemnation

19   you do not have that right to go on private property for

20   the purposes of making a survey, or not? 

21              MR. CAMPBELL:  At this point we're not at the

22   condemnation phase.  We're still trying to acquire this

23   property as a private entity.  And we're optimistic that

24   with the majority, if not all, of the property, that will

25   be accomplished without any condemnation. 

0063

 1              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  I guess that's my biggest

 2   concern, that the nature of the situation with the salt

 3   springs and architectural (sic) things may cause you some

 4   substantial delays.  And I didn't know the extent.

 5              MR. CAMPBELL:  We don't believe it will be of a

 6   substantial nature, but we can't say that until we get on

 7   the property to see where --

 8              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  Is there any alternative

 9   to the location of the route where that could be avoided? 

10              MR. CAMPBELL:  Not without infringing on far

11   more property owners.  This really is the most direct

12   route which infringes on the fewest number of property

13   owners. 

14              If you take the proposed road, to the north

15   you're going to hit some subdivisions.  And you can't go

16   too far south because you have topographical issues to

17   deal with. 

18              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  I guess the other concern

19   I had was -- and I think you probably have solved this

20   question -- is railroads. 

21              Originally you had a ground-level post; now

22   you're going to an overpass? 

23              MR. CAMPBELL:  That's my understanding of the

24   latest approach, yes. 

25              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  Which makes more sense

0064

 1   from a safety point of view. 

 2              MR. CAMPBELL:  It sure does. 

 3              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  How far are you on the

 4   railroad with that? 

 5              MR. CAMPBELL:  There has been an oral agreement

 6   on that.  It is now going to be reduced to writing. 

 7              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Aren't there two railroad

 8   crossings? 

 9              MR. CAMPBELL:  I believe there are. 

10              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Don't forget our overlay.

11              MR. CAMPBELL:  I will. 

12              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  I think it's -- we're

13   hoping that this is something that you can resolve with

14   the local people, and I assume you're working hard at

15   that. 

16              MR. CAMPBELL:  Well, we are.  The Isle is very

17   sensitive to becoming part of the community. 

18              In Kansas City and with Boonville, I think

19   they've already demonstrated that inclination. 

20              In Jefferson County they, likewise, are very

21   interested in becoming part of the fabric of that whole

22   community. 

23              And will there be a day when you do not have

24   individuals complaining about a gaming facility at some

25   location in the state?  Probably not. 

0065

 1              But the Isle of Capri has a long history in its

 2   other location, and it's establishing a long history in

 3   Boonville and Kansas City of living up to their commitment

 4   to become part of the community and become good corporate

 5   citizens. 

 6              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  Do you have any firm

 7   commitment from the county that if necessary they will

 8   condemn this road? 

 9              MR. CAMPBELL:  That's been -- yes, that's been

10   understood. 

11              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  They've taken some action,

12   or how have they committed to you? 

13              MR. CAMPBELL:  I cannot recall right now if

14   that's been reduced to writing.  I can certainly get that

15   answer for you.  But there has certainly been a firm

16   commitment to follow through on that if necessary. 

17              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  I guess I'm just concerned

18   that every effort is made to accommodate the people of

19   Jefferson County, to cause the least disruption as

20   possible on this project, and I hope that you are doing

21   that. 

22              MR. CAMPBELL:  Yes, sir.  It is always a goal

23   of the Isle at whatever location they're involved in, and

24   they really attempt to go the extra mile to ensure that

25   everyone is being treated fairly and that the disruption

0066

 1   in the community is minimal and that the -- what the

 2   community gets back far exceeds any disruption or anything

 3   else. 

 4              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  Sorry to take up so much

 5   time, but I think this is important. 

 6              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  We may want some further

 7   comment from the Isle people and you or whoever.  But the

 8   first order of business is the overlays and so on and so

 9   forth so the Commission can look at that. 

10              MR. CAMPBELL:  Yes, Mr. Chairman.  We'll

11   produce that promptly. 

12              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Thank you. 

13              MR. CAMPBELL:  Any other questions? 

14              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Thank you again. 

15              MR. CAMPBELL:  Thank you. 

16              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Kevin. 

17              MR. MULLALLY:  Yes, sir. 

18              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Next is Mark Twain -

19   LaGrange.  Correct? 

20              MR. MULLALLY:  That's correct. 

21              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  After that one we're going to

22   take a short break. 

23              MR. MULLALLY:  That will work great, because

24   they need to set up some equipment. 

25              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Who does? 

0067

 1              MR. MULLALLY:  You're very perceptive. 

 2              Dr. Nower. 

 3              So if we do --

 4              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  I must be psychic, because I

 5   didn't realize it. 

 6              MR. MULLALLY:  You are very perceptive. 

 7              The next presentation is -- we will hear from

 8   Mr. Bill Grace and Larry Seckington regarding the progress

 9   of the construction project in LaGrange. 

10              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Mr. Grace, are you first on

11   the agenda, or last? 

12              MR. GRACE:  I'm last. 

13              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Last? 

14              MR. GRACE:  Never let me talk first. 

15              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Well, that is what I was

16   concerned. 

17              MR. SECKINGTON:  Mr. Chairman, we have some

18   photographs for the staff. 

19              THE COURT REPORTER:  Your name is? 

20              MR. SECKINGTON:  Larry Seckington. 

21              Mr. Chairman, Commissioners, I'm Larry

22   Seckington with Mark Twain Casino.  With me today are

23   Bruce Schmitter, the Director of Operations, and

24   Mr. Grace, one of the principal owners of the facility. 

25              We've passed out to you a little cover letter

0068

 1   that gives you a little background on our project

 2   concerning the size and cost and the ownership and

 3   management of the project, along with the organizational

 4   chart, to show you how the company is organized. 

 5              On the second page of our letter, however, we

 6   have some bulletin points that we thought we'd touch on

 7   very briefly to bring you on to date where we are with our

 8   LaGrange project. 

 9              As you probably know, LaGrange is just across

10   the river from Quincy, Illinois.  It's a small town in

11   Missouri of about 1,142 people.  So you can imagine the

12   economic impact that this project is going to have on that

13   community. 

14              Their current budget is about $600,000 a year.

15   Our proposed revenue, if we meet our projections, will

16   generate about a-million-four for that community each

17   year.  So they're anxiously awaiting our opening. 

18              We have had a great relationship with the City

19   of LaGrange. 

20              When we first proposed our project, they went

21   out and organized a group called the LaGrange

22   Revitalization Organization.  And between the City and

23   that revitalization organization, we have acquired or

24   leased all of the property necessary for this project.

25              The LaGrange Revitalization Organization

0069

 1   actually accumulated a major portion of our real estate we

 2   needed, and then we purchased it from them. 

 3              With the proceeds from that sale, they have

 4   constructed the first new building in LaGrange in several,

 5   several years.  It's -- it now houses their library.  And

 6   they have two spaces available for retail openings on --

 7   right on Main Street.  So we've already started to have an

 8   economic impact with the City. 

 9              We have a docking arrangement with the City

10   which spells out all financial obligations of our company,

11   which we'll start -- we're supposed to start paying when

12   we first open. 

13              However, there were a couple of projects that

14   came up from the City's standpoint that they needed money

15   for.  One was the new fire station. 

16              And so rather than wait until opening, we

17   advanced them $100,000 to finish their fire station, which

18   is now completed, and they're inhabitating that. 

19              The next thing that happened was Lieutenant

20   Matt Brown of your staff contacted me and contacted the

21   City with respect to whether or not they had a sufficient

22   size police force to -- to handle our opening.  We

23   determined they did not. 

24              And a joint meeting with Gaming Commission

25   staff and the City, it was determined that they would have

0070

 1   to hire another three or four officers and another

 2   dispatcher or two sufficiently ahead of our opening to be

 3   able to get them trained. 

 4              So our company advanced another $100,000 to the

 5   City so that they could make those arrangements. 

 6              So as you can see, we've already -- we've

 7   already had an economic impact with that community, and

 8   the economic impact after we open will be substantial. 

 9              As I said, the lease and the options with the

10   LRO, we have an additional 14 or 15 lots which we are

11   leasing from the LRO.  We have an option to purchase those

12   at some point in time in the future for a set amount of

13   money. 

14              But in the meantime, our lease payments to the

15   LRO allow them to make their bank payment for the new

16   building that they have constructed. 

17              So we have already had, like I say, an economic

18   impact with the City.  And we have a very, very good

19   relationship with the City.  We've had no problem at all.

20   I think that there are maybe four or five amendments to

21   our original docking agreement that we have negotiated

22   with the City, and they've not been a problem at all. 

23              I'd like to have Bruce Schmitter talk to you

24   about the employee requirements, the current employees and

25   our job fairs and our training schedules.  And Mr. Grace

0071

 1   will conclude our presentation with some pictures of our

 2   current status of the construction. 

 3              MR. SCHMITTER:  Thank you very much.  I'd like

 4   to just take a few minutes. 

 5              As Larry said earlier, there is about 1,100

 6   people in LaGrange.  As you all may be well aware, it's a

 7   rather small, rural community. 

 8              And when you go in and you're going to hire a

 9   large, stabilized work force, it would probably be about

10   275 FTEs. 

11              When you go in to hire a number of people out

12   of a small community, you're always a little skeptical

13   about what is going to happen. 

14              But I'm happy to say that we had our first job

15   fair to begin dealing on our dealer school that will be

16   starting at the end of February, the 19th and 20th of this

17   month. 

18              And I'm happy to say we had almost

19   800 applicants come through the door, which has been close

20   to a three-to-one ratio, which we haven't had the luxury

21   of having on some of our other openings that we have done.

22              So we are very, very happy with actually the

23   number of people that came through for the limited basis

24   that we had, as well as the quality of the people.  It was

25   very refreshing, very friendly people, very open, and I

0072

 1   think pretty excited about this opportunity for themselves

 2   and for the community. 

 3              As I said --

 4              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  Can I ask you just a

 5   quick question there? 

 6              Were most of those from Missouri, or did that

 7   include people from Quincy, Illinois, across the river? 

 8              MR. SCHMITTER:  Actually, Quincy is only about

 9   15 minutes away.  And so we did have a large number of

10   people out of Illinois, because the bridge goes right

11   across the river at Illinois and a lot of access to

12   Illinois, those counties along the river there, so there

13   was a number of Illinois residents as well. 

14              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  Any problems with minority

15   applicants in that area? 

16              MR. SCHMITTER:  Actually, the minority make-up

17   in that area is probably -- is a small percentage.  We

18   had, I think, probably a good representative mix at our

19   job fair from what -- for the population base that is

20   there. 

21              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  How many applications did you

22   say you received or -- well, not applications but

23   attendees, if you will? 

24              MR. SCHMITTER:  Approximately 800. 

25              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  800.  For 275 jobs? 

0073

 1              MR. SCHMITTER:  Well, actually we were just --

 2              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Or roughly. 

 3              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  Yeah, 275, probably, FTE

 4   stabilized workforce is where we'll be at. 

 5              And this particular job fair, we were actually

 6   identifying people for the dealer's school, which is a

 7   substantially smaller number than the total population.

 8   Of course, we were taking applications for everything at

 9   the time. 

10              We will be also doing another job fair probably

11   two months in advance for opening.  So I'm kind of excited

12   to see what happens with the second go-around where we're

13   actually closer to opening. 

14              We do currently have a controller on staff, and

15   we're in the midst of the general manager selection

16   process.  We should have that finished up fairly shortly.

17              As I said, the end of February, we'll probably

18   be opening in February, the first of March.  We'll be

19   opening up our dealer school, to make sure we have a long

20   enough time to train our table games employees prior to

21   opening. 

22              With that, I will turn it over to Mr. Grace,

23   and he can give you an update on construction and timing.

24              MR. GRACE:  Construction is going very nicely

25   in spite of the winter.  We were a little ahead of

0074

 1   schedule until the real nasty stuff hit us. 

 2              The land acquisition of this site was no small

 3   task.  This whole entire site was under water, had been

 4   flooded, was made up of small 50-foot lots, streets,

 5   allies and water running every direction.  But it has --

 6   the total thing has been acquired now. 

 7              The first thing we had to do was bring in

 8   400,000 square foot of -- I mean, cubic yards of fill to

 9   bring it up out of the flood elevation.  That has been

10   done. 

11              You're looking at the front of the building as

12   you'd see it -- if my pointer would work, and it doesn't.

13              The highway that you entered -- the method of

14   entry into this facility will be the highway, what you see

15   right in front of it, in front of the facility. 

16              That to the right -- again, my pointer doesn't

17   work.  Over here is the -- is the casino.  Inside there is

18   our floating pontoons.  This is the main entryway. 

19              Over here is the restaurants, dining rooms and

20   the back the office. 

21              Just another look at the site.  You can't see

22   it from that photo; but right out in the middle of that,

23   there is probably five foot of dirt that's been hauled in.

24              Just a little -- another side shot, showing you

25   the front, again. 

0075

 1              Again, this is the portico.  This is the main

 2   entering into it.  This is the casino -- main part of the

 3   casino, and over here is the restaurant, whatnot.

 4              We're just now -- like I said, had we been two

 5   to three weeks earlier of getting this enclosed, we would

 6   have been way further ahead than we are now.  But we

 7   couldn't -- we had it open in, and we were basically shut

 8   down for four or five weeks.  

 9              There is the highway again, going by the side

10   of the building.  This is the north end of the building.

11   This will be the paddle wheel.  You can't see it there,

12   but there is an opening in there.  That's where we're

13   bringing the barges, the pontoons in, and assembling the

14   barge. 

15              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  Where does the highway go

16   from, Mr. Grace? 

17              MR. GRACE:  The highway just comes in from the

18   interstate, loops around through LaGrange, and back out to

19   the interstate again, back towards Canton. 

20              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  And how far are you from

21   the interstate? 

22              MR. GRACE:  Oh.  Two miles, a mile and a half,

23   two miles. 

24              This is the back showing the loading dock,

25   whatnot.  This will be employee parking back over in this

0076

 1   area. 

 2              It shows the back entrance into the kitchen,

 3   with this being the main entryway and this being in front

 4   of the building again. 

 5              There is the highway again, just -- there is

 6   that hole I was telling you about, where we're shoving the

 7   pontoons through, making up the pontoons.  We hope to have

 8   this sealed up probably in two weeks. 

 9              This shows the pontoons.  They are coming in in

10   two pieces.  We then weld them together in the pit.  This

11   is all in the pit.  There is the floor elevation there.

12   So all of those barges we hope to have in there by Monday

13   of next week. 

14              This is the interior -- interior shot, showing

15   like you were standing in the main entrance.  This will be

16   the dining room off here.  All of this will be open here

17   going back to the casino. 

18              This is the only piece of interior slab that

19   isn't poured, this main entrance right in here.  We have a

20   lot of equipment in there working on it.  As soon as we're

21   through with that, we'll pour it. 

22              This shows the back.  You can see, we've

23   starting studding up the walls.  We're starting with the

24   fire ceiling.  That will not be the finished ceiling.

25   That's just the fire ceiling up there, with the ductwork

0077

 1   underneath it.  I would say the ductwork is probably

 2   50 percent completed.  And, again, the slab is poured back

 3   in this area. 

 4              That's it.  We -- we think we're on schedule.

 5   We plan on opening sometime in June.  We can't be any more

 6   specific than that at this time.  Maybe the first part of

 7   the month, maybe the last part of the month, depending on

 8   the weather and a few other things.  But we want to be

 9   open by the 4th of July. 

10              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Thank you, gentlemen. 

11              MR. SECKINGTON:  Thank you very much. 

12              MR. GRACE:  Thank you. 

13              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Do we have any questions from

14   anybody up here? 

15              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  No. 

16              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Thanks again. 

17              At this particular time we're going to take

18   about a ten-minute break. 

19              (A RECESS WAS TAKEN.)

20              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Come to order, please.

21              MR. MULLALLY:  Mr. Chairman, members of the

22   Commission, the next item on the agenda has to do with an

23   educational presentation on problem gambling. 

24              As you may recall, early last year we had our

25   first educational presentation before the Commission on

0078

 1   problem gaming issues, and we heard from Dr. Ken Winters

 2   from the University of Minnesota, School of Medicine, and

 3   Keith Spare, the President of the Missouri Council on

 4   Problem Gambling, and Dr. Renee Cunningham Williams and

 5   Dr. Linda Cottler from Washington University.  And the

 6   Commission was very receptive to these types of

 7   presentations. 

 8              It's my pleasure and the staff's pleasure today

 9   to have Dr. Lia Nower, who is an assistant professor of

10   social work and a research fellow in both the Public

11   Policy Research and International Center at the University

12   of Missouri-St. Louis. 

13              Dr. Nower received a Fulbright research

14   fellowship in youth gambling from McGill University in

15   Montreal, Canada, and National Institute of Mental Health

16   fellowship from Washington University, and a research

17   internship award at the National Research Council in

18   Washington D.C. 

19              Lia is a licensed attorney and former criminal

20   prosecutor.  She provides evaluation and consultation for

21   government, industry and corporate clients, and expert

22   witness testimony.  She is a nationally certified

23   compulsive gambling counselor and clinical supervisor for

24   the National Council on Problem Gambling. 

25              Dr. Nower treats adolescent and adult gamblers

0079

 1   in her private practice and conducts national and

 2   international trainings for professional -- for treatment

 3   professionals. 

 4              Her research interests include the

 5   identification and treatment of youth, minority and senior

 6   gamblers, and the legal implications of excessive gambling

 7   for families and communities. 

 8              As you know, prior to becoming acting director,

 9   problem gambling was an area of particular focus for me,

10   and I hope we'll continue to be. 

11              Lia has been an invaluable resource for our

12   staff.  She is a friend of the Gaming Commission, and we

13   get a lot of free advice out of her.  So it's my pleasure

14   to introduce Dr. Lia Nower. 

15              DR. NOWER:  Thank you. 

16              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Welcome, Dr. Nower. 

17              DR. NOWER:  Thank you after that buildup.

18              Kevin asked me today -- since last time you

19   looked at epidemiology issues, basically, I'm going to

20   focus on current directions in etiology and treatment

21   research, because as a treater, that's my primary

22   interest. 

23              Youth gambling is my subspecialty, so I'm going

24   to start off with youth and some recent findings that

25   we've had, and then put that into a larger treatment model

0080

 1   that's going to be tested this summer, part of it. 

 2              Some issues in youth gambling:  What we're

 3   really interested in looking at right now is how do we

 4   identify youth or at-risk for disordered gambling? 

 5              When I talk about disordered gambling, I'm kind

 6   of lumping problem and pathological together. 

 7              What factors are most important in preventing

 8   and treating youth gambling, and what can government,

 9   industry and educators do to lessen the prevalence of

10   disordered youth gambling? 

11              The research is in its infancy, and I had the

12   privilege, like Kevin said, of receiving a Fulbright from

13   the U. S./Canadian government to go and work with

14   Dr. Jeff Derevensky and Rina Gupta, who have done the

15   really -- the beginning work in youth gambling at McGill

16   in Montreal in the treatment side of it. 

17              So we did this nine-month study.  And we wanted

18   to see the relationship of disordered gambling to

19   impulsivity and sensation seeking. 

20              These are two dispositional factors that we

21   have found in adults to be people who are more impulsive

22   and tend to seek intense stimulation, in particular, are

23   more prone to developing a gambling problem.    

24              We also were interested in stress-coping

25   styles, the ways in which people deal with individual

0081

 1   stressors in their lives.  And we know from alcohol and

 2   drug research, that people who tend to abuse more, have

 3   fewer problem-solving coping skills and more avoided-

 4   coping skills when they're confronted with the stress.

 5              And this is typically learned behavior from

 6   their parents, or their caregivers.  We wanted to see

 7   those relationships and whether or not the coping skills

 8   may moderate in any way, meaning lessen or amplify, the

 9   dispositional predictors and the incidents of gambling. 

10              Just to show you, we conducted the study with

11   1,339 youths in the Montreal area, ages 17 to 21.  The

12   legal age of gambling is 18 in Montreal.  It's very

13   similar to here with the penalties and the new Senate bill

14   and that.  It's equivalent in the way that they treat it.

15              Nongamblers, no gambling in the past year. 

16   101 male, 150 female.  Low-risk gamblers are ones who

17   endorse zero to two symptoms on the DSM-IV-J, which is an

18   instrument for adolescent gambling out of England by Sue

19   Fisher. 

20              At-risk gamblers endorsed three symptoms.  So

21   these are the kids that are sort of right on the cusp of

22   developing a problem.  And then pathological gamblers met

23   full criteria on the instrument, which is four plus

24   symptoms out of twelve. 

25              Just by way of background -- and I know you've

0082

 1   heard from Ken Winters, probably, some of this before.  We

 2   found things that are pretty much in keeping with what we

 3   know. 

 4              Males overwhelmingly reported more gambling.

 5   About 84 percent of males and about 79 percent of females

 6   reported that they had gambled in the past year. 

 7              Of those about 27 percent of males gambled once

 8   a week or more, and the females about 12 percent.  So

 9   substantially fewer females. 

10              Distribution by age.  Nongamblers,

11   18.7 percent.  Low-risk, 73.6.  At-risk, 3.6.  And

12   probable pathological gamblers, 4 percent. 

13              That is consistent with what has been found in

14   other studies.  The DSM-IV-J is a more conservative

15   measure than what Ken Winters uses.  He uses the SOGS RA.

16              So you'll see a higher prevalence raised

17   slightly in his research. 

18              Typically the adolescent prevalence rate for

19   pathological gambling is about double the adult rate,

20   depending on where the prevalence study is conducted. 

21              Just so you'll get an idea, the percentage of

22   youth that engage in this various gambling activities, by

23   and large, the lottery is the most popular.  And most of

24   these kids report that they got their first lottery ticket

25   from their parents in their Christmas stocking, and they

0083

 1   have sort have been hooked ever since. 

 2              Slot machines were much more popular in this

 3   age group.  My colleagues in Canada had done a similar

 4   study.  We asked some of the same questions with younger

 5   kids, ages 12 to 16.  And slots and video poker jumped in

 6   prominence among this age group, which I'll talk about in

 7   a minute. 

 8              We found an alarming trend in the preference of

 9   youth for slot and video poker machines, which we know

10   feature a highly addictive behavioral reinforcement

11   schedule. 

12              It's much more difficult to treat, in my

13   experience, people who are addicted to these kind of

14   machines than, for example, the table or the action

15   gambler, because with the action gambler, the course is

16   longer.  It's more protracted.  So you have less of a

17   grasp this kind of activity, love it, do it so much that

18   you're having a difficult time extinguishing it. 

19              So it's more difficult to treat the slot

20   machine players.  More than 60 -- 76 percent of

21   pathological gamblers and 70.8 percent of at-risk gamblers

22   play video poker.  52.7 percent and 20.8 percent at least

23   weekly. 

24              And as you can see, almost 90 percent of

25   pathological gamblers and 73 percent of at-risk gamblers

0084

 1   played slots, and half of those and over a quarter of

 2   these weekly. 

 3              Just to show you where the difference is, a lot

 4   of times we get asked, what symptoms really show when a

 5   youth is developing a problem. 

 6              And chasing was the number one endorsed symptom

 7   among all gamblers.  You know, when I lose or when I win,

 8   I want to go back the next day and I want to repeat this.

 9              Preoccupation, the same thing.  I find myself

10   thinking of gambling at odd times of the day.  Those two

11   things were sort of common. 

12              But tolerance was really the determining

13   factor.  When I win, when I gamble with a certain amount

14   of money, I find I have to gamble more frequently and with

15   more money to get the same arousal level.  That was 8th

16   with low-risk gamblers.  It was 3rd with at-risk and

17   probably pathological gamblers. 

18              So that's the symptom that we found that in

19   this particular study was the most telling. 

20              We also looked at drug and alcohol use in this

21   population.  And this is not going to be surprising to

22   you. 

23              We found that among nongamblers, they tended to

24   use without a problem or not use more.  And the use --

25   problematic use of drugs and alcohol increases linearly

0085

 1   across levels of gambling severity. 

 2              It is highest, most interestingly, in the

 3   at-risk gamblers.  They have the highest amount of problem

 4   substance use.  And when I asked some of the pathological

 5   gamblers why this was, they said, well, when you gamble at

 6   our level, why waste money on drugs and alcohol. 

 7              So they still had a high level of problem use

 8   but not quite as high as the at-risk gamblers. 

 9              About -- whoops.  Well, I said 25 percent of

10   these kids gambled with their parents.  And we asked them

11   questions about their perception, whether their mother or

12   father had a drug or alcohol problem or a gambling

13   problem. 

14              We don't know if this true.  That is just what

15   you perceived. 

16              And as you can tell, among pathological

17   gamblers, a father with a drinking or drug problem was

18   very significant.  The same thing, a father with a

19   gambling problem, among the at-risk gamblers, was very

20   significant. 

21              And the mother's behavior in this particular

22   sample was not as important. 

23              That was with male youth.  I'm sorry.  I have

24   these divided by gender.  Because the gender really showed

25   some differences, as you'll see with the coping skills.

0086

 1              Among females, pathological gamblers

 2   overwhelmingly said, that if my father has a gambling

 3   problem or my father has a drinking or drug problem, this

 4   really makes the difference.  And interestingly, there was

 5   a huge dropoff with the at-risk gamblers.  So you can see

 6   this developmental modeling of behavior. 

 7              Just to give you a sense about where youths are

 8   gambling, casinos are very popular.  And as people

 9   increase in severity, you see a much higher increase in

10   casinos, convenience stores for lottery tickets and

11   gambling with friends. 

12              And, of course, pathological gamblers gamble in

13   more venues overall and with more people overall. 

14              I was interested in how many of underage youth

15   were gambling at various locations, because they're not so

16   supposed to be buying lottery tickets and they're not

17   supposed to be in casinos. 

18              And, yet, we found no significant differences

19   among the underage youth and how much they're in a casino,

20   or how much they're in the convenience store buying

21   lottery tickets. 

22              As you can see, over 90 percent of the

23   pathological gambling underage youth get in casinos.

24   Those have legal deterrents.  They still get in.

25              Risk and protective factors -- now, this is

0087

 1   where we looked at the dispositional characteristics. 

 2              And not surprisingly, we found that both

 3   at-risk and probable pathological gamblers were

 4   significantly higher than the others in their level of

 5   innate impulsiveness, their inability to resist the urge

 6   to just jump in.  There is a whole level -- a group of

 7   questions, just a general impatience, impulse control

 8   problems. 

 9              With sensation seeking, we measured two kinds

10   of sensation seeking:  novelty and intensity.  And what we

11   saw, which is consistent with other growth gambling

12   studies, there is really no difference in novelty.  You

13   know, kids that really need some new and different thing.

14              Among pathological gamblers it's the intensity

15   that is significant.  The at-risk and pathological

16   gamblers have a need for really intense sensations that

17   are provided by lights and noise and sound and the arousal

18   of tables and things that are consistent with the gambling

19   environment. 

20              We then looked at stress-coping variables.  And

21   we found that among males, they endorse significantly

22   higher levels of avoided-coping styles.  And this is

23   consistent with the substance abuse literature.  It has

24   not ever been tested with gamblers, but it has been with

25   substance users. 

0088

 1              Social diversion:  I look to other people to

 2   distract me from my stress. 

 3              Distraction:  I do things to distract me from

 4   my stress. 

 5              Mental disengagement:  I think about other

 6   things.  I fantasize.  I ruminate. 

 7              Denial:  I just pretend that the stress isn't

 8   there. 

 9              Substance use:  I drink, I use drugs to get

10   away from the problem. 

11              Females, on the other hand, showed different

12   variables that were significant.  For female, stress

13   coping served as protective rather than a risk factor.

14              Females who were higher in active:  I take

15   action, I plan, I problem solve, were significantly less

16   likely to be disordered gamblers.  And females, once

17   again, who use substances were much more likely to be

18   disordered gamblers. 

19              Overall, we saw that males who sought intensity

20   were 11 percent more likely to become disordered gamblers.

21   All of these are.  And who could copied by distraction

22   were 12 percent more likely.  Who abused substances, were

23   3 percent more likely. 

24              And among females, only the dispositional --

25   and this is in, like, a logistic regression.  I didn't put

0089

 1   all of the statistical tables in to bore you to death.

 2   But that is where these percentages come from. 

 3              Only the dispositional predictors were

 4   significant.  So the coping styles were not as significant

 5   with females, but they were with males. 

 6              Very interestingly, we found that a male who

 7   believed his father gambled too much was three times as

 8   likely, in terms of odds, to become a disordered gambler.

 9              And a female who believed her father abused

10   substances was two and a half times, in terms of odds, to

11   become a disordered gambler.  So we see that patterning. 

12              The implications of this for us, for practical

13   purposes, are that we need to identify highly impulsive

14   and intensity-seeking youth. 

15              There is about a 50 percent comorbidity among

16   gamblers who also abuse substances.  So they need to be

17   identified early.  We need to assess their preferred

18   coping styles.  And if they're avoidant, we need to teach

19   them problem-focus-coping styles. 

20              And this can be done in educational settings,

21   as well as in treatment settings. 

22              We need to address systematic -- the systemic

23   issues.  For example, parents who gamble with their

24   children and model addictive behaviors are likely to

25   foster the disorder in their children. 

0090

 1              And we need to identify and address issues of

 2   comorbidity, like, substance use and other things. 

 3              The other thing that we need to do -- and this

 4   is sort of the segue into the second part of this

 5   presentation, is that we need to stop treating all

 6   gamblers alike. 

 7              There is this notion in the treatment community

 8   that we get a gambler and this is what we do with them.

 9              And a person that I work with in Australia,

10   Alex Blaszczynski, who has written a book called,

11   Overcoming Compulsive Gambling, has positive -- what is

12   called the pathways model. 

13              And he believes there is essentially three ways

14   in which someone becomes an addictive gambler, and we need

15   to identify what path the person fits in and assign the

16   correct treatment modality. 

17              And briefly, I'm going to go over this model

18   for you. 

19              If you have any -- do you have any questions?

20              And I'm going to fit the youth -- sort of fits

21   in here.  You'll be able to see. 

22              Ecological factors, the accessibility and the

23   availability of gambling. 

24              Now, the pathway one gambler is the normal

25   gambler.  They don't really have problems in their lives.

0091

 1   They don't have psychological problems.  They may start

 2   gambling with their peers.  Or they may be an elderly

 3   person whose spouse has died and they're lonely, or

 4   they're retired and have a lot of time. 

 5              So they go to a venue to gamble, and through

 6   classical and operant conditioning, we find that they

 7   become very addicted to the arousal level, both the

 8   subjective excitement.  This is psychologically exciting

 9   and physiologically, my heart races, et cetera,

10   et cetera. 

11              And they begin to develop these erroneous

12   cognitions.  You know, I think this machine speaks to me.

13   You've heard -- I'm sure the people that work in the

14   casinos have heard all of these kinds of things. 

15              I know that they have little cameras in the

16   ceiling, and they know I'm here, and they tune this

17   machine down.  I've heard all of this in treatment.  I'm,

18   like, okay. 

19              Biased evaluations:  We have lots of excuses

20   for why we win, but we don't -- we minimize our losses. 

21              Then what happens with these particular folks

22   is they develop these things, and the increased

23   involvement establishes this habitual pattern of gambling.

24              It goes from being a occasional, to being

25   frequent, to being regular and heavy.  And then they begin

0092

 1   to have financial problems, and they chase their losses,

 2   and that leads to problem gambling. 

 3              That is pathway one. 

 4              The demographics of these folks, typically,

 5   there is a late onset.  They have a shorter period of

 6   excessive gambling.  They reach their bottom much quicker.

 7   Their financial problems are less severe. 

 8              They had stability in childhood in their family

 9   history.  They have no psychopathology.  They're not

10   depressed.  They don't have a personality disorder.  They

11   may be depressed when you see them, but it's because of

12   the financial pressure.  And their substance abuse is

13   minimal. 

14              We should treat them essentially by cessation

15   or reduction through their own volition, and they have a

16   positive response to very minimal treatment.  These are

17   the folks that we have a lot of success. 

18              Pathway two gamblers, you have the same things.

19   You have the ecological factors and the conditioning

20   factors, but add to this vulnerability factors.  And this

21   is what we saw a lot with the youth. 

22              And those vulnerability:  childhood

23   disturbance, some kind of trauma or parents weren't home,

24   parents gambled.  Their personality.  They're high in risk

25   taking, impulsive, depressed, prone to boredom. 

0093

 1              They seek either a lot of stimulation or things

 2   that had zone them out.  They have poor coping and problem

 3   solving. 

 4              If they're older when we see them, we see

 5   marital discord, substance abuse, life stresses. 

 6              Then add to the vulnerability factors that they

 7   gamble as a way to escape boredom or depression or some of

 8   these vulnerability factors.  And then that -- the

 9   demographs of these folks, they've had a dysfunctional,

10   traumatic childhood, situational stress, poor coping

11   skills. 

12              They typically have moderate levels of

13   psychopathology. 

14              And from a clinical standpoint we find that

15   they're anxious or depressed.  They may have bipolar

16   disorder.  They gamble and abuse substances often to

17   escape emotionally. 

18              In males they're looking more for a rush.  In

19   females they're more looking for escape from depression.

20              Treatment implications:  We use psychological

21   interventions, cognitive behavior and supportive therapy,

22   stress management.  We advocate abstinence and sometimes

23   an antidepressant, referral to a psychiatrist. 

24              This is the final pathway.  We see all of the

25   same things as we saw in pathway two.  But these folks

0094

 1   also have biological correlates. 

 2              And those are basically biochemical -- and I'm

 3   not going to go overall of these chemicals, because you'll

 4   really fall asleep. 

 5              But, essentially, the significance of

 6   mentioning these, is that we see all of these biological

 7   things in these folks, and we often see attention deficit

 8   disorder, early evidence of conduct disorder in kids,

 9   seeking pleasure, dopaminergic responses in the brain. 

10              And the reward/punishment system is very

11   important.  And the genetic research being done by

12   Cummings really addresses this piece, and that is, that

13   some people genetically are prone to seek things that

14   stimulate the reward pathway in the temporal path of their

15   brain. 

16              And these folks are basically what they're

17   talking about.  And so that's a much more convoluted way

18   of getting to the same problem.  They also have associated

19   behaviors, criminality, substance abuse and impaired

20   relationships. 

21              And let me say about this, I have -- just so

22   you see what -- let me go over this first.  I'm sorry. 

23              Just to recap the demographs:  Early onset of

24   problem gambling, severe financial problems, early history

25   of instability and impulsivity, lots of psychopathology,

0095

 1   substance abuse, ADHD systems, broad spectrum of criminal

 2   behaviors. 

 3              Alex calls these the antisocial, impulsivist

 4   folks. 

 5              Treatment implications:  Poor response to

 6   treatment.  Medication may or may not work with these

 7   folks.  And this is sort of the whole -- the whole -- his

 8   whole model.  

 9              This summer I'll be going to Australia to work

10   with him in the in-patient gambling treatment unit.  And

11   we're going to be trying some of these treatments on the

12   different gamblers that we put in these different

13   pathways. 

14              And one thing I want to mention, what is an

15   interest to me right now from a legal standpoint is, that

16   we have programs for drug and alcohol abusers, diversion

17   programs, in our criminal justice system to keep folks

18   from, let's say, who are in pathway one or pathway two

19   from just going to prison. 

20              They are 60 years old.  They have never had a

21   speeding ticket, but they've embezzled $200,000.  What do

22   we do with these folks? 

23              There is nothing right now.  There is nothing

24   to do with these folks. 

25              Now, with drug and alcohol offenders, when I

0096

 1   was a prosecutor, if the person could make restitution for

 2   their crime, they may be more likely to get probation.

 3              But a 60-year-old person is probably not going

 4   to repay $200,000 in restitution, so they end up going to

 5   prison.  And I've heard a lot of stories in GA about that.

 6   And we need to come up with something. 

 7              So in summary, all gamblers are not created

 8   equal.  And this is a whole new way of looking at

 9   treatment. 

10              There are three pathways or possibly more.  And

11   as we begin to research this more, we'll fine-tune this.

12              Each pathway entails different risk and

13   protective factors.  Diagnosis requires sophisticated

14   screening.  And I'm encouraged to see that the Department

15   of Mental Health is recognizing that they need to begin to

16   award gambling contracts to people who -- as it is, the

17   people who are not in State agencies cannot get the

18   gambling contracts. 

19              So those of us that have the highest

20   credentials and don't work in the State agencies do not

21   have access to the State funds, which seems sort of

22   antithetical to the highest level of treatment you can buy

23   for your money. 

24              But they have recognized this in their, and I

25   understand, you know, going to put out an RFP soon, so

0097

 1   hopefully. 

 2              Effective treatment requires the use of

 3   different treatment modalities and the involvement of the

 4   whole family system. 

 5              As we could see from the youth gamblers, it's

 6   very important, we can't just look at these kids and treat

 7   them a vacuum.  We need to look at the whole family and

 8   how they deal with problems and what their addictive

 9   behaviors comprise of. 

10              Thank you. 

11              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  I've got a question. 

12              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  Go ahead. 

13              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  I'm going to admit, I'm a

14   crazy old man.  But I remember -- I remember when I was a

15   teenager and a young person, that I thought people my age

16   and even younger were crazy and didn't see the world like

17   it really was.  I have generally switched roles now. 

18              And what I'm getting to is, it doesn't seem to

19   me what I gather from this is much different than what I

20   perceive of society in general, and I'm talking about the

21   younger generation.  I'm not putting them down. 

22              But the impatience, need to be entertained, the

23   boredom.  I see that in my own grandchildren.  And yet

24   there is more and more and more things for these children

25   to do. 

0098

 1              So being the crazy old guy that I used to look

 2   at and talk about, there is not a good answer, but is

 3   there any answer? 

 4              I mean, when we have more to do, why are we

 5   bored? 

 6              DR. NOWER:  Because, in my own personal

 7   opinion, I think that back when you were growing up, you

 8   know, roles between males and females were more defined.

 9   And you probably had more direct maternal attention. 

10              Kid nowadays are coming from two-parent

11   households who both have to work to make ends meet, or

12   want to work.  The kids are, you know, in day-care or a

13   babysitter.  They don't get that individual attention.

14   That attention is supplanted by video games, things that

15   are arousal, provoking and stimulating. 

16              If the kids don't sit still, they get put on

17   Ritalin at five years old. 

18              And so the problem is a problem in the family

19   system and societally as a whole rather than just with the

20   kids. 

21              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  Do these numbers that

22   you kind of threw up of at-risk and pathological, based on

23   research you've had in the past, which is probably limited

24   in going forward, are they holding?  Do they tend to be

25   steady? 

0099

 1              DR. NOWER:  I have a whole part of my

 2   dissertation that is devoted to different ways in which

 3   people have chosen to categorize that in-transition group.

 4              And what we don't know is what direction these

 5   in-transition gamblers are going. 

 6              Some researchers look at money wagered, plus

 7   number of symptoms.  Some look at frequency and/or

 8   symptoms and/or -- everybody has a different way of

 9   categorizing the people in the middle. 

10              We know Point A and Point C.  Whether these

11   people are going toward pathology or away from it or in

12   the middle, we don't know.  So we just sort of arbitrarily

13   choose something based on what we're looking at.

14              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  Is pathology growing,

15   or is that a relatively stable number?

16              DR. NOWER:  It's like a shell game.  I think

17   that, you know, you kind of hide the pathology and move it

18   around.  Folks that have pathology, it will manifest in

19   some way. 

20              That's why in GA, we typically see recovering

21   alcoholics, we see recovering sex addicts, and then they

22   just sort of switch addictions among the comorbid

23   population. 

24              But whenever you have increased accessibility,

25   you're going to have a higher prevalence. 

0100

 1              Rachelle Bolver (phonetic sp.) did a prevalence

 2   study in '96 that showed that places that have had

 3   legalized gambling for a long time have a higher

 4   prevalence rate. 

 5              Now, if that's because of visitors or what, we

 6   don't know.

 7              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  And that kind of led

 8   me to my last question was, if you're in a state like

 9   Missouri and you go from, you know, five gambling places,

10   if you will, to twenty, is that pathological group

11   numberwise or percentagewise going to grow, or are they

12   just going to do it more, if my question makes sense? 

13              DR. NOWER:  Typically -- and because this is

14   such a new phenomena, they only have places like the East

15   Coast and Las Vegas and that to look at.  The privilege

16   rate is about 2 percent higher. 

17              But why that is, we don't know. 

18              Among the elderly population, the supposition

19   is that these folks probably gamble pathological on bingo,

20   but the most they could lose would be 100 or $200. 

21              Now they go and they are on the slot machines,

22   and they're losing huge amounts of money.  Their pathology

23   has been stable, but the devastation is greater. 

24              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  Thank you. 

25              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  A question:  It seemed to

0101

 1   me that Missouri has been a leader in trying to do

 2   something about the problem gambler and has a good

 3   program, but it concerns me how few people are taking

 4   advantage of it. 

 5              What do we need to do to reach more people? 

 6              DR. NOWER:  Well, I have been, like I

 7   mentioned, a big -- fairly vocal about the fact that if

 8   we're going to train 120 compulsive counselors, we need to

 9   make sure that all of those folks have access to State

10   funds and are able to treat the gamblers. 

11              And up until now, and currently, the only

12   people who can get the funds are the State agencies.  So

13   there is all of these competent counselors who see

14   gamblers who have to either go through those gamblers EAPs

15   or treat them on a sliding scale. 

16              I think increasing the overall amount of

17   providers and -- the training is excellent.  You know, I

18   don't have any qualms with the training.  They do really

19   fine training here.  They just need to make sure that they

20   recruit the best counselors, they give State contracts to

21   those counselors and there is some marketing, you know, so

22   that we cast the broadest net for the most people. 

23              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  If I were a problem

24   gambler, I really wouldn't know where to go right now

25   unless I happened to hear about our hotline or something.

0102

 1   I just wondered how we reach these people. 

 2              Unless my family real thinks I'm so bad they're

 3   going to make me do something.  How do you catch the

 4   people before they get so bad? 

 5              DR. NOWER:  Well, typically, the family is the

 6   big proponent.  But, like, what happens a lot of times is,

 7   if I get people refer -- you know, call me and say, I

 8   don't -- I don't have any money, I want treatment, my

 9   choices are either to refer to somebody who is a State

10   provider and -- or to treat them for free or for a little

11   money, and -- or refer to someone I know who charges --

12   you know, who has to charge and doesn't have a State

13   contract.  And that's difficult. 

14              I think once that changes, you're going to see

15   a big change in how many people are served. 

16              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  So what you're saying is

17   that we've lost all of this money and we're depressed, and

18   so on and so forth, and we don't want to spend any to get

19   better? 

20              DR. NOWER:  Well, you know, at some point -- I

21   think there is -- accountability is one of the first

22   things toward recovery, is taking personal responsibility.

23              But the fact is, there are some people who just

24   don't have any money.  And so -- their families don't have

25   any money. 

0103

 1              And so initially somewhere they've got to get

 2   some treatment.  And if the choice is I won't go or I get

 3   free treatment, I would rather see the free treatment at

 4   least initially. 

 5              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  How are they identifying

 6   these people that will get the State money to treat? 

 7              DR. NOWER:  It was given to people with

 8   existing Department of Mental Health contracts, or ADA

 9   substance abuse.  That's how it was initially started. 

10              So people who had those contracts got the

11   gambling contracts.  Now that is about to change. 

12              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  Who is handling that?

13              DR. NOWER:  Dewey Price is the one that has

14   worked on the RFP.  And, really, it's he's been a huge

15   proponent.  He's under Michael Couty's division. 

16              And Dewey is the head of the gambling unit, and

17   he's been a great advocate -- supportive of counselors and

18   extremely proactive about getting the best people. 

19              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  How many are we treating

20   here?  What was that figure? 

21              MR. MULLALLY:  Melissa, I believe the last was

22   somewhere around 100.  Right? 

23              MS. STEVENS:  I believe so. 

24              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  So if we have 100 people

25   we're treating, how many people are getting money as

0104

 1   counselors? 

 2              DR. NOWER:  Well, I got those figures

 3   together last year --

 4              MR. MULLALLY:  It's a couple dozen is all

 5   that -- the -- of course, it's agency again. 

 6              DR. NOWER:  That's the other problem. 

 7              MR. MULLALLY:  It's hard to judge.  This is an

 8   issue that we're working on through the alliance.  I

 9   stepped down yesterday as President of the Missouri

10   Alliance to curve problem gambling, and we elected a new

11   one, who happens to be Dewey Price with Missouri

12   Department of Mental Health. 

13              And this was a topic of some discussion at the

14   meeting yesterday.  So I'm hoping that, as Lia suggested,

15   that we're moving towards a model where individual

16   counselors are the ones who are able to obtain contracts

17   and the services become more readily available and easier

18   to access. 

19              It's something that is very high on the agenda

20   for the Alliance. 

21              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  I asked a psychiatrist in

22   Columbia and a psychologist, who are these people, where

23   do you go, and they don't know.  So how does the word get

24   out? 

25              MR. MULLALLY:  Well, the good news is that --

0105

 1   that the accessibility to the various programs and

 2   services that we offer has risen dramatically because of

 3   the efforts over the past two years of the Alliance. 

 4              Melissa issued a report, and we'll be happy to

 5   get a copy of it yesterday, that shows the increase in

 6   access to the hotline numbers, increase in numbers to the

 7   voluntary exclusion program, increase in access to a lot

 8   of different services that we offer because of the

 9   outreach efforts that we have engaged in. 

10              To the extent that because of the funds that

11   are being made available because of Senate Bill 902 that

12   was passed last year, that we can increase those outreach

13   efforts and start to do more things like -- you know, the

14   bottom line is, we need to get more paid advertising out

15   there. 

16              It has to be a motto where we spend more money

17   on outreach on the front end, so we can spend more money

18   on treatment on the back end.  It's exactly what you said.

19              We have to get people more aware of where to

20   go, and then we can back off maybe some of the awareness

21   money and put it into treatment. 

22              And it's just convincing the folks that give us

23   the money that that is an acceptable model, and I think

24   we're getting close to being there. 

25              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  So it's improving. 

0106

 1              I mean,  I consider myself hyper-aware, and

 2   billboard, I've heard it on radio, I know it's posted in

 3   casinos.  But I think it's just because I'm hyper-aware of

 4   what I do. 

 5              But if you're sitting there depressed and

 6   despondent and going, I really have got a problem, I think

 7   both of you bring a good point, that somehow that

 8   awareness has to be a little more obvious, or something,

 9   where somebody can reach out. 

10              MR. MULLALLY:  And it comes down to a money

11   thing.  I mean, we looked at a proposal yesterday from the

12   Missouri Net Sports Broadcasting Network, to do -- to do

13   billboards at Tiger basketball. 

14              Because that is a demographic that fits our --

15   the at-risk population.  Sporting public is a very good

16   demographic for us as far as building awareness. 

17              And doing the billboard things at the game, in

18   the program, being on the radio during the Tiger broadcast

19   for both football and basketball, and we're all incredibly

20   excited about it.  It's a great package for us.  The

21   dollar figure is a little high. 

22              So we're going to have to figure out how to

23   make this work and choose our spots appropriately. 

24              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  You know, a question,

25   because, obviously, I don't go there.  But if we walk into

0107

 1   a casino, is there something -- if you get your card, is

 2   there a ticket, is there anything that has printed on it

 3   that you might walk away with, when you get out of there,

 4   that you might reach in a coat pocket and later says, here

 5   is the hotline? 

 6              MR. MULLALLY:  At the casino? 

 7              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  Uh-huh. 

 8              MR. MULLALLY:  Oh, yeah.  It's on -- it's on

 9   all of the admission cards that you need to get in. 

10              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  Okay. 

11              MR. MULLALLY:  It's posted by the ATM, it's

12   posted at ticketing, at the turnstiles and the cage. 

13              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  So it's actually on a

14   document that you might take away, reach in your pocket

15   the next morning? 

16              MR. MULLALLY:  Yes.  Yeah. 

17              And, of course, we require our voluntary

18   exclusion brochure to be posted at ticketing and the cage,

19   and that has not only the hotline number but our number,

20   and details about how they can get in that program.     

21              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  And that is for

22   somebody that calls and says, not only do I have a

23   problem, but I'm broke, I don't have a way of paying for

24   it? 

25              MR. MULLALLY:  Yes.  We work very -- the

0108

 1   Alliance works very closely, although I must say, I wish

 2   Consumer Credit Counseling would step our way a little

 3   more. 

 4              We have gone to the nth mile to try to reach

 5   out to Consumer Credit Counseling, and they do some things

 6   on their own.  They have not joined the Alliance and have

 7   not been as aggressive as I would hope. 

 8              So if the media is out there and can encourage

 9   Consumer Credit Counseling to be more involved, I would

10   certainly appreciate that. 

11              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  Is that a State-financed

12   organization? 

13              MR. MULLALLY:  No.  I think they're

14   private --          

15              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  They're private. 

16              MR. MULLALLY:  -- not-for-profit. 

17              But we always send -- Melissa is in pretty

18   constant communication, at least from our end, on the

19   outgoing end, with Consumer Credit Counseling.

20              Whenever we send information out, we always try

21   to make them aware.  We have invited them to join the

22   Alliance.  We're trying to get them more involved. 

23              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Thank you very much. 

24              Do you have any more questions? 

25              I appreciate it.  Thank you. 

0109

 1              MR. MULLALLY:  I'd just like to again thank

 2   Lia.  She, as I said, is a great resource for us. 

 3              I think just from her presentation, you can

 4   gather not only is she incredibly intelligent, but she has

 5   a passion and energy for this issue that is a joy to deal

 6   with. 

 7              And one of the other things I take away from

 8   her presentation and others that I've seen like it, is you

 9   can usually gather what somebody's take on these things

10   are is if the first thing they say when they come away

11   with this, see, I told you casinos were bad. 

12              Because I think if you really look at the data

13   that she presents, this is a much -- does -- do problem

14   gamblers increase with the advent of casinos?  Absolutely.

15              But I think that you're looking carefully at

16   the data and if what your interest is, is really helping

17   problem gamblers, you see that it is a much broader

18   problem than this. 

19              And we need more people that -- whose desire is

20   to help the problem gambler without all of these other

21   fringe issues. 

22              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  And it's not just

23   problem gambling.  I mean, there is overeating, there is

24   sexual addictions.  There are so many addictions.  And as

25   you said, at some point, people have to be accountable.

0110

 1              And hopefully for the rest of us that are

 2   involved potentially in those industries where it's a

 3   little higher, you provide access and help. 

 4              But, you know, gambling, I think as you pointed

 5   out, is one behavior for certain people.  They're going to

 6   go to another addiction, to another one.  It's -- it's

 7   much more complicated.  It's not that simple. 

 8              DR. NOWER:  If I can just add one thing. 

 9              I think one thing that is really important from

10   looking at the pathways, is that -- and this is -- has

11   implications for treatment. 

12              It's, like, I don't treat people with eating

13   disorders because that is a really particular subspecialty

14   and people can die.  So I refer those people to a person

15   who specializes. 

16              Because our industry is so new in treatment,

17   there are certain people who have the biological education

18   to really treat these pathway three folks that have all of

19   this stuff going on. 

20              But a person who doesn't have that education,

21   who may be a certified compulsive gambling counselor, they

22   may be great, but they just don't have all of the tools.

23              And ultimately, hopefully, we'll get to where

24   we have a network where people don't fall through the

25   cracks because it doesn't get addressed at Point A and

0111

 1   then they develop four more addictions, or we address the

 2   gambling but not the other addictions and then they

 3   relapse.  Those things are all -- it's like a net. 

 4              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  And, I guess, my

 5   point was, is that, but in addition to that, that it's

 6   just not that easy. 

 7              Somebody who overeats, you can't close all of

 8   the grocery stores and restaurants.  You have to teach

 9   them to cope with that. 

10              You know, somebody has other addictions;

11   drinking, you can't close liquor stores and bars. 

12              At some point, you know, there has to be a

13   coping mechanism, an accountability mechanism, and then

14   avenues to which we can help people help themselves. 

15              DR. NOWER:  Right.  Thank you. 

16              MR. MULLALLY:  Chairman, the next item on the

17   agenda is a presentation by Ken Peck. 

18              Patricia Churchill and I had the pleasure of

19   visiting Kimmswick last week, and were able to take a nice

20   tour of the town and meet a lot of the business owners and

21   the residents and some of the people in the area of the

22   proposed casino. 

23              And I can tell you they are very passionate

24   about their beliefs and sincere about what they feel.  And

25   I think it just highlights the difficulty that we all face

0112

 1   in dealing with this issue and balancing their concerns

 2   versus the -- the policing concern of the other 400,000

 3   residents of Jefferson County and the people of the state

 4   as a whole. 

 5              It's why we are often referred to as an

 6   obscure, noncontroversial State agency, I guess. 

 7              Ken. 

 8              MR. PECK:  Well, as I said, I appreciate your

 9   letting me sit before you one more time. 

10              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  I kind of feel like you're

11   a member of the Commission. 

12              MR. PECK:  You know, that's getting to be kind

13   of a strange feeling.  I've been getting to feel

14   comfortable coming here. 

15              But I also want to thank Kevin Mullally and

16   Patricia Churchill for taking the time to visit our little

17   village last week. 

18              And, of course, I want you to know -- and we

19   want to you know -- that our invitation to your -- to you

20   to visit our town still -- still stands.  And I've brought

21   some maps for you to find your way to where we are. 

22              Mayor Selsor has asked me to apologize

23   to you for his not being able to be here today. 

24   He has asked me, though, to deliver a letter which I will

25   leave to you to read, okay, in the interest of brevity. 

0113

 1              But basically it elaborates on some conflicting

 2   zoning circumstances that probably -- that could well have

 3   led to our frequent presence here before you.  So I ask

 4   you to read this.  I think you'll find it interesting. 

 5              And, you know, I know that the Commission

 6   really doesn't have, you know, authority to invoke -- I

 7   mean, the main procedures, and you probably don't want to

 8   hear it from anybody. 

 9              But I'm just wondering, you know, it occurs to

10   me that you people are the ones who license casinos, and I

11   think that it is a matter of consideration for you that

12   the process of imminent domain could be used to acquire

13   private property. 

14              Actually, with this my comments are pretty much

15   finished, with the exception of the fact that since the

16   imminent domain thing has veered its ugly head, we have

17   here today Larry Schlecht, whose property could stand to

18   be lost by imminent domain, and he wants to make a brief

19   statement to you. 

20              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  That's fine. 

21              MR. PECK:  Do you want him to come forward? 

22              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Sure do. 

23              MR. SCHLECHT:  Briefly, I have a letter here.

24   I'd like to give copies, if I may, for each one of you,

25   for the record, or whatever. 

0114

 1              I'll just make this real brief, and I have a

 2   real brief comment, if you don't mind, when we finish. 

 3              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Go right ahead. 

 4              MR. SCHLECHT:  Okay.  Ladies and gentlemen of

 5   the Gaming Commission, my name is Larry Schlecht.  And I

 6   am being forced to negotiate with Isle of Capri to sell

 7   all of my land for an 80-foot-wide road. 

 8              I have been told that unless I negotiate a sale

 9   of my land to Isle of Capri, Jefferson County might

10   condemn my land for Isle of Capri's profit -- benefit.

11   I'm sorry. 

12              The property has a six-acre lake, numerous

13   springs of historical, cultural and archeological

14   significance. 

15              If the Isle of Capri acquires my land, it would

16   be used for a private drive to serve only the proposed

17   casino. 

18              This past July the Commission announced its

19   decision to investigate Isle of Capri's application for a

20   casino near Kimmswick. 

21              We heard indirectly that the Commission would

22   likely conclude its investigation in 30 days. 

23              During the September meeting, almost four

24   months ago, experts for the City of Kimmswick presented

25   specific information, demonstrating that Isle of Capri has

0115

 1   misled the Commission:  the MoDOT connection with

 2   Highway 61/67, the railroad crossing, the local permit,

 3   which all -- which had expired -- or some of the items

 4   that have not been resolved by Isle of Capri as of the

 5   September meeting.            

 6              Myself, as a landowner, have not been -- have

 7   not been approached with an offer by -- for my property.

 8              How can a proposed casino be ready to start

 9   construction? 

10              I am disabled.  My wife is very sick, actually.

11   She was from -- she has cancer and other things, medical

12   problems. 

13              Please address these charges and say no to Isle

14   of Capri, so we can go on with our lives and build our

15   retirement home while we still can. 

16              That's my statement I'd like to read.  But I

17   have one brief thing that I would like to add to that, if

18   you don't mind. 

19              In the proceedings here, the gentleman who

20   represented Isle of Capri made a statement that the one

21   homeowner or landowner was still out, you know, hadn't

22   negotiated or hasn't resolved with them yet. 

23              And I guess I take issue with that, because my

24   understanding is the City of Kimmswick owns some ground

25   where the road is going to go also. 

0116

 1              As of the last couple of days, they haven't

 2   even been approached yet with an offer. 

 3              So they cannot put a road through my ground

 4   unless they go through the City's property. 

 5              And I find it interesting, why wasn't that

 6   brought to the people's attention, just the one landowner,

 7   when there was more than that? 

 8              There are other issues that I take issue with,

 9   but, I think, because of my attorney, I haven't discussed

10   it.  I'd rather not discuss too much about it, but I

11   wanted to, you know, bring that to your attention. 

12              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Well, I think, probably, we

13   will find out before this is over with.  Don't you? 

14              MR. SCHLECHT:  I'd like to. 

15              It seems interesting that they're ready to go

16   and they haven't even talked to the City about the ground

17   which was donated to them for a private park for the

18   citizens of the area, which could be taken away for one

19   company to make money. 

20              I thank you very much. 

21              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Thank you, sir. 

22              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  A couple of questions, if

23   I could.

24              MR. SCHLECHT:  I may or may not answer them,

25   because, like I say, I was --

0117

 1              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  I know what is supposed to

 2   go on in a lawsuit. 

 3              MR. SCHLECHT:  -- supposed to read that --

 4              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  I used to try a lot of

 5   condemnation cases, so be careful what you tell me. 

 6              But I was under the impression that this would

 7   not just be a private drive; it would be available for

 8   public use. 

 9              Is this a limited-access drive? 

10              MR. SCHLECHT:  From the information that I

11   received from, by looking at some maps and so forth, by a

12   representative of Isle of Capri, the road is going to go

13   strictly from Highway 61/67, directly to the Isle of

14   Capri. 

15              And there will be one intersection in there

16   with a (inaudible) road crossing it.  I believe that would

17   be necessary for fire, police protection.  They couldn't

18   stop a road or do anything else, because it has to have

19   access for the public utility. 

20              And that would be the only people that actually

21   have a road or touching it. 

22              No business or residence have a driveway to

23   this road.

24              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  So there will be access to

25   a public road that goes into this new roadway or driveway? 

0118

 1              MR. SCHLECHT:  It will cross somehow.  I don't

 2   have the particulars.  But it has to cross some way.  They

 3   can't close a public road off, I would think. 

 4              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  That's what I -- I would

 5   have thought that there was some road connections in

 6   there.

 7              MR. SCHLECHT:  Just the one existing road,

 8   which has minimal traffic, by the way. 

 9              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  I would like to know more

10   about the springs that you've talked about, and lakes.

11              How much of that land -- how many of them are

12   they taking and exactly what is happening? 

13              MR. SCHLECHT:  I was informed that they want

14   all of that.

15              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  They want all of your

16   land?

17              MR. SCHLECHT:  Yes, sir. 

18              I have 25.43 acres.  I donated some to

19   Kimmswick for a walkway.  Some of the springs are on the

20   City's property.  It goes around the Lake.  There is a lot

21   of -- it's a nice place for people to walk.  It hasn't

22   been developed yet. 

23              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  So they would not take the

24   land that -- the springs that the City owns? 

25              MR. SCHLECHT:  Well, if the road goes through

0119

 1   where I've been somewhat informed it was going to go --

 2   see.  I really don't know specifically if it's going to go

 3   exactly where it's going to go.  But indications are that

 4   it's going to go right through the spring area, yes. 

 5              But that's up to them, Isle of Capri and the

 6   county, to find out the specific location.  But as of

 7   right now, some of the springs are going to be involved in

 8   the road, yes. 

 9              No matter where they put the road through

10   there, some of the City's property will be involved. 

11              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Are those springs on the

12   north side of your lake? 

13              MR. SCHLECHT:  Yes, sir.      

14              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Is that generally where they

15   are? 

16              MR. SCHLECHT:  They're on somewhat of a

17   diagonal line. 

18              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  But generally north.  Right? 

19              MR. SCHLECHT:  Yes, sir.

20              And there has been a lot of -- I don't have it

21   with me, but there has been a lot of archeological study

22   down there over the years. 

23              Recently Dr. Bruce McMillin -- he's from

24   Illinois, an archeologist -- who has some samples of soil.

25   He's studying them right now. 

0120

 1              There are numerous documentations down there.

 2   The museum has one.  In 1896 there is an article about all

 3   of the Indian grave sites which are on that location.

 4              There has been a man named Jones who put down

 5   the first enterprise, if I read it correctly.  It was in

 6   the 1770s, was down there.  He saw what was coming out of

 7   the springs. 

 8              There is a Harold Sithe (phonetic sp.), which

 9   is an archeological site similar to Mastadon Park, which

10   is very close, and some people believe it's a continuation

11   of the site. 

12              If fact, we're very close to Mastadon Park, and

13   there were some photos discovered which had a lot of

14   interest in that field years ago.  So there is a lot of

15   history down there. 

16              At one time this was part of Montesanto Springs

17   (phonetic sp.), a resort, where people came out with

18   riverboats and so forth down there, and they came down to

19   these springs. 

20              There has been quite a bit of history to it.

21   That's briefly for layman's terms. 

22              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  Did you say you have a

23   lawyer? 

24              MR. SCHLECHT:  Yes, sir, I do. 

25              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  Has he met with the Isle

0121

 1   of Capri to determine the location of the road? 

 2              MR. SCHLECHT:  At this time my attorney wrote

 3   Isle of Capri some time ago with some questions and

 4   concerns.  And my knowledge, as of the last day or two,

 5   she hasn't received an answer yet.  This has been about a

 6   month or so ago. 

 7              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  Do you know, the 25 acres,

 8   will this cut through your property or on the edge of it? 

 9              MR. SCHLECHT:  Well, if they are taking all of

10   this, I don't know.  I could speculate, but I don't think

11   that would be proper. 

12              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  You haven't been told? 

13              MR. SCHLECHT:  I saw a map where they're --

14   where they're proposing to do it.  But then again, that is

15   all proposals.  And once they get the ground, they can

16   move it wherever they want to, and --

17              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  (Inaudible.)

18              MR. SCHLECHT:  -- I would be misleading you. 

19              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  What did they propose?

20              MR. SCHLECHT:  Right where the springs are is

21   where they're proposing to put the road.      

22              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  Leave you the land north

23   and south of it?

24              MR. SCHLECHT:  No, sir.  They're taking all of

25   it. 

0122

 1              I have 25.43 acres, and I donated some to

 2   Kimmswick, so I don't have quite that much anymore.  But

 3   they're going to take all of it. 

 4              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  They can't take it without

 5   just compensation.  At some point --

 6              MR. SCHLECHT:  Well, that is something I would

 7   very much like to discuss with you, but I don't think I

 8   better. 

 9              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  I mean --

10              MR. SCHLECHT:  Because, quite frankly, the

11   proposal -- when they give me the appraisal, I read

12   through it, and I'm not allowed to say too much about it,

13   but I -- because there is a disclaimer in there,

14   obviously.            

15              And I showed it to -- not that, but I showed

16   the price to real estate people, because I'm not in that

17   field, and they laughed. 

18              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  You understand that you

19   will have a commission appointed by a court if it's

20   condemned --

21              MR. SCHLECHT:  Yes, sir. 

22              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  -- and appraise it, and

23   then you can also ask for a jury determination on that? 

24              MR. SCHLECHT:  Yes, I understand.  The county

25   seat of Hillsboro will appoint the three people.  But the

0123

 1   question is, is Hillsboro -- they have a monetary interest

 2   in this. 

 3              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  I see.  They're supporting

 4   it then? 

 5              MR. SCHLECHT:  Well, Hillsboro being the

 6   city county seat, I guess you could say, whoever appoints

 7   them -- I'm not for sure -- has a contract with Isle of

 8   Capri. 

 9              So they're both going to make money at it.  So

10   it's kind of interesting to me, and an opinion, it seems

11   like it's a conflict of interest. 

12              But that's -- I'm not the lawyer.  I'm just

13   giving you my opinion. 

14              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  You have -- you do

15   understand you do have some protection as far as getting

16   value; you don't have to accept what's offered to you?

17              MR. SCHLECHT:  Well, I couldn't accept the

18   first offer because -- that they gave me to sign.  I'd go

19   to jail if I signed it.  That's my opinion. 

20              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  Have they come on the --

21   have you allowed them to come on your property to at least

22   survey the possible location? 

23              MR. SCHLECHT:  No, sir.  I've stated I do not

24   want them, because I believe that is my right. 

25              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  I think at some point they

0124

 1   can.  If the road is being condemned, they have that

 2   right.

 3              MR. SCHLECHT:  I'm not -- I'm not an attorney.

 4   I couldn't tell you.  I just believe at this point, until

 5   we at least negotiate -- which we're in the process of

 6   trying to do.  Until we negotiate, I don't -- I won't

 7   comment because I don't know. 

 8              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  Well, I would hope that

 9   your lawyer could work with them to protect you on this.

10              MR. SCHLECHT:  I hope so too.  Because it just

11   doesn't seem proper, some of the things that are

12   happening, but that is my opinion. 

13              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  Thanks for coming. 

14              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Thank you, sir. 

15              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  I just have a comment

16   in general, maybe just coming from me, speaking

17   individually. 

18              I know this has been very contentious on both

19   sides, and maybe it appears at times that we're not

20   listening, and we are.  But there are two sides, and there

21   is lots of issues to address. 

22              And if we ever gave the impression that an

23   answer would come in a month, I don't remember how that

24   came across, and maybe it was something we miscommunicated

25   on our part. 

0125

 1              I could assure you that would not be the case.

 2   Investigations of this nature just don't happen that

 3   quickly.  And, also, there are things on both sides. 

 4              If anybody has been involved in putting up a

 5   project of this nature -- and I'm not just saying casino,

 6   but buildings -- all of the i's aren't dotted and all of

 7   the t's aren't crossed at that time.  They're worked

 8   through. 

 9              But both sides, I think, you know, I feel at

10   least with myself and everybody on here, are very much

11   being listened to. 

12              And now that we've got some things behind us

13   that kind of jumped ahead, as you're all aware at the end

14   of last year, I know we can devote a lot of time to this,

15   and hopefully this will work out to everyone's best

16   interest, maybe not 100 percent but best interest. 

17              And that's just my thought. 

18              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  I appreciate that. 

19              Thank you, Lynne. 

20              MR. MULLALLY:  Well said. 

21              Mr. Chairman, the final item on the agenda is a

22   market report from the Commission's financial analyst, Jim

23   Oberkirsch. 

24              MR. OBERKIRSCH:  Good morning, Chairman and

25   Commissioners, for another ten seconds. 

0126

 1              This is a brief report.  I'm only going to

 2   report on two properties that are currently -- either have

 3   completed upgrades or are in the process of completing

 4   upgrades. 

 5              And you might have noticed they've posted weak

 6   results in the near term, so I thought I'd address them. 

 7              First of all, the President recently relocated

 8   to their new mooring site just north of their existing

 9   mooring site.  And they opened for business on

10   December 14th. 

11              The move actually culminated a series of

12   upgrades that I think we should address:  new slot

13   product, 175 brand new slot machines, another 800

14   previously owned slot machines that had bill validator

15   technology, which will allow them to get the full benefit

16   of the recent vend-to-meter legislation. 

17              They've also implemented a player -- electric

18   player tracking system, which will allow them to enforce

19   the loss limit electronically, and it's a customer

20   convenience point as well. 

21              Early signs of showing that they're -- that

22   they're showing improved results. 

23              Over the last six months our AGR was down year

24   over year by about 10 percent. 

25              They came out of their open boarding

0127

 1   anniversary very flat, and then a few other things

 2   precipitated to the results. 

 3              But early indications are -- although the

 4   numbers have not stabilized -- that trends are positive,

 5   and they're currently solidly in the double-digit year-

 6   over-year plus range. 

 7              And we will just continue to monitor the

 8   situation to see what the prospects are. 

 9              But this is -- this is their make or break

10   year.  They've really done everything they could without

11   expending a lot money to make the President as competitive

12   as possible. 

13              Now they'll try various marketing strategies to

14   see how everything works together, but everything is in

15   place.  And we're going to -- over the next couple of

16   quarters we're going to see exactly what the prospects for

17   that location are going farther. 

18              The second -- the second project which you

19   might have noticed --

20              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  Can I just stop

21   you --

22              MR. OBERKIRSCH:  Sure. 

23              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  -- and then you can

24   go back to that, because I know there has been some items

25   in the press about thoughts on how that project is going

0128

 1   to grow as a result of this move. 

 2              And I'd love it to grow that much.  That would

 3   truly be an ultimate success story.  But just given my

 4   background, I have my doubts.  And I'm just curious, given

 5   what they have said, do you see a high probability of them

 6   achieving that level of growth? 

 7              MR. OBERKIRSCH:  It's very difficult to say. 

 8              A few of the things with regard to the new site

 9   didn't work out.  They didn't -- they didn't get control

10   of the parking like they wanted to.  They're still working

11   towards that. 

12              The casino does have a better feel to it.  When

13   you embark on the boat now, it's actually like you've

14   reached a destination as opposed to walking a gangplank to

15   a riverboat. 

16              And the new general manager says there is a new

17   corporate culture with respect to customer service,

18   customer friendliness that he has implemented. 

19              And everybody is really positive, and we're

20   going to -- and there is no more tricks in the bag, so

21   we're going to know shortly just what is going to happen

22   there. 

23              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  And I didn't mean to

24   put you on the spot, because I truly hope that they do

25   that.  I just know -- you and I, I think, would agree that

0129

 1   the next two or three quarters are going to be extremely

 2   telling. 

 3              MR. OBERKIRSCH:  Right. 

 4              And all of the changes should compound each

 5   other with regard to the new slot product and the player

 6   tracking technology and such.  So I'll defer to next

 7   quarter. 

 8              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  You and me both. 

 9              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  Is the weather a problem,

10   really, to make an analysis now?  They hit this bad

11   weather at the time they opened. 

12              MR. OBERKIRSCH:  We've had a few weeks in

13   January to look at pretty clean year-over-year results.

14              But you're right.  Right off the bat, three

15   days after they move to the new site, the bad weather hit.

16   They had some momentum and then they lost it all.  And

17   then the results were clouded by the bad weather. 

18              But trends are favorable and we're seeing

19   double-digit growth. 

20              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  There is a lot of

21   activity with events in downtown St. Louis, which

22   hopefully will help. 

23              MR. OBERKIRSCH:  True enough.  True enough.

24   That's the one aspect that the Admiral has on some of the

25   other boats. 

0130

 1              The other property that has been posting weak

 2   results is the Isle of Capri in Kansas City. 

 3              And just to give you a little perspective

 4   there, things are getting back on track; but at the height

 5   of the construction, they were at 50 percent slot

 6   capacity.  They were down to 542 slot machines, and

 7   against their goal of about 1,100.  That was in the

 8   beginning of the December. 

 9              By Christmas they only had 689 slot machines

10   operational, which is, I think, a little bit behind what

11   they wanted to have when the holidays hit. 

12              By New Year's they were up to 949, so they were

13   pretty much in full spring.  Again, the goal is 1,100. 

14              As Tom Campbell mentioned, there is still some

15   finishing touches on the casino floor, and then the

16   exterior work.  And they really haven't announced to the

17   public that the renovation is complete, and they haven't

18   had their grand opening, which they anticipate doing in

19   the next couple of months.  And at that point in time, I

20   think, we'll be able to really take a better look at the

21   numbers. 

22              But the up side is that year-over-year results

23   are at about break-even with growth.  So they've come out

24   of that really large deficit. 

25              For instance, the AGR was down 31 percent for

0131

 1   the most recent quarter, which is, you know, a startling

 2   drop. 

 3              But in light of the fact that the casino floor

 4   was at 50 percent, it just gives you a little more

 5   perspective into those numbers. 

 6              And that's really all I had for a market

 7   report. 

 8              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Thank you. 

 9              MR. MULLALLY:  Mr. Chairman, that concludes the

10   staff's agenda -- or staff's proposed agenda. 

11              Before you entertain any other business or a

12   motion for closed session, I would like to publicly thank

13   the staff for all of their hard work since Mel Fisher's

14   retirement. 

15              When Mel retired, we not only lost the charter

16   member of the staff, but also somebody who did an

17   incredible amount of work. 

18              And as acting director and continuing my role

19   as deputy director for legal legislation, it's been a

20   tough deal.  But the staff has really stepped up, and even

21   though Patricia has been short-staffed in legal and Steve

22   Johnson gets a baptism of fire and was short-staffed in

23   enforcement, everybody has really stepped up and brought

24   this thing together. 

25              And I think the meeting was relatively smooth

0132

 1   today, and in large part to all of their efforts. 

 2              I really want to acknowledge them publicly and

 3   thank them for their effort. 

 4              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Thank you, Kevin.  Well said

 5   and well deserved. 

 6              It seems as though my volunteer job turned into

 7   about a half-time job since Mr. Fisher left.  I'm going to

 8   take him to task one of these days over that. 

 9              I don't mind.  But the workload increased for

10   me.  I didn't used to have any, and/or very little. 

11              And I think once we get everybody in-house and

12   get some people on board that we need, hopefully, that

13   personally I'm going to kick back just a bit. 

14              Anyway --

15              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  We appreciate all of your

16   extra efforts too. 

17              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Sarcasm gets you everywhere. 

18              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  We really do. 

19              You have to meet with the press. 

20              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  Well, anyway, it will come

21   out in the wash and we're going to be better for it as a

22   Commission. 

23              And, again, we do appreciate the staff.  Even

24   you, Steve, really do. 

25              I know your name.  I'm just kidding you.  We

0133

 1   know that.  We appreciate it. 

 2              And pass it on to your people. 

 3              I know Kevin is overloaded, not to say that the

 4   rest of you aren't, because when that vacancy is at the

 5   top, everything piles up on all of the rest of them.  I'm

 6   well aware of how that works.  I'm just glad I'm not down

 7   here. 

 8              So, anyway, keep it up.  We're going to try to

 9   resolve some things for you in the very near, near future,

10   and I think it's going to work well. 

11              Anybody have any comments they want to make?

12              If not, I'm going to ask for a motion for a

13   closed session.  And we will return for an open session,

14   but the only reason we're coming back is so we can legally

15   close the meeting.  So we'll have no business at our open

16   session after the closed. 

17              The closed is going to be of some duration.  We

18   have a few internal problems, if you will, and primarily

19   the Commission is going to address some of the vacancies

20   that we've got and so on and so forth.  So we may be in a

21   fight in there before it's over with.  Nevertheless, we're

22   going to try to resolve some situations. 

23              Do we have a motion? 

24              COMMISSIONER SMITH:  Mr. Chairman, I do have a

25   motion. 

0134

 1              I would like to move to close this meeting to

 2   receive, discuss and consider the following matters:

 3   Personnel matters under 610.021(3) and (4) RSMo,

 4   investigatory, proprietary and application records,

 5   information and summaries under 610.021(14) and 313.847.1

 6   RSMo, and closed minutes or other closed records under

 7   610.021(14) and 313.847.1 RSMo. 

 8              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  I have a motion. 

 9              Do we have a second, please? 

10              COMMISSIONER NIKOLAISEN:  Second. 

11              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  We have a second. 

12              All in favor? 

13              (Unanimous ayes.)

14              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  All opposed? 

15              (No response.)

16              CHAIRMAN ULLERY:  So be it. 

17              (Hearing adjourned.)

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0135

 1  

 2  

     STATE OF MISSOURI)

 3                    ) ss. 

     COUNTY OF COLE   )

 4  

 5  

 6              I, Patricia A. Stewart, Notary Public within

     and for the State of Missouri, do hereby certify that I

 7   was personally present at the proceedings had in the

     above-entitled cause at the time and place set forth in

 8   the caption sheet hereof; that I then and there took down

     in Stenotype the proceedings had and produced with

 9   computer-aided transcription and that the foregoing is a

     full, true and correct transcript of such Stenotype notes

10   so made at such time and place. 

11  

                IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand

12   and seal on this 7th day of February, 2001. 

13  

                My commission expires October 4, 2001. 

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16  

17                        Notary Public - State of Missouri

                          (Commissioned in Cole County.)       

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